PurpleFlare Posted May 10, 2011 Posted May 10, 2011 Hi everyone, I'd like to let you guys know I'm new to this forum and I apologize in advance if my English isn't good as it isn't my first language. As for my background... I'm ashamed to admit that I started when I was about 12 or so. I'd start by light just anything I can find on fire. I eventually would start to combines two or more things and light it on fire just to see what happen. I eventually learned to grinds powder out of firework and use it for whatever I want to. One day I got my hands on a large canister of black gun powder. I explore with it for a couple months before I made a bomb... When I set it off.. I regret it badly. It turn out to be way more powerful than I thought and shakes whole block up to point where people came out of the house because they thought it was earth quaking. That's what pushed me away from the hobby for many years. Now I'm in mid 20s and just got started again few days ago. I got a odd book on military techniques. One part of it was how to make a signal flare. Here's what I end up did: I got potassium nitrate, aluminum powder #400 mesh, shellac, sugar, cotton string, rubbing alcohol (99%), and few tools. I first test every chemicals by placing very small amount on a large brick and light it just to see how it react. Then I combine chemicals together in different ways in small amount and test it in the same manner. I do this repeatedly until I am sure I know what to expect from each chemicals. I also make sure to never use anything metal as a tool for any chemicals, always to keep all chemicals far apart and well away from the testing site. Once I was confident with everything, I mixed equal amount of potassium nitrate with half amount of shellac and pour it in soda can with top cut off. I then put a homemade fuse (dipped in sugar and P.N. dissolved in water and allows dry). It didn't went off after a couple efforts. I noticed the fuse stop burning as soon as it hit the mixture. I tried to roll mix of sugar and P.N. in paper towel and lit it. Again no luck! I end up take a small sample of mixture and place it on the brick and held a BBQ lighter by it until it burn. I noticed it wasn't really sparkling or even giving off purplish flame. I figured it must have something to do with lack P.N. So I take bit more sample and mix bit more P.N. with it and lit it. This time the flame look right, but know the fuse will never lit it. I added more P.N. to the mixture in the can. I then take small sample out and carefully add bit rubbing alcohol to it as I know rubbing alcohol would evaporate any moisture and burn longer than the fuse. I lit the sample on fire and it burns for a bit before the mixture went up in a small flare. I finally realized I must be on top of something. I retested the sample a couple more times just to be sure I am aware of how it would behave when lit. I then added the alcohol to the mixture in the can. I place the can back on other set of bricks I lay out for the purpose. I lit the alcohol and run back and watch... At first I thought I was gonna be disappointed, but to my pleasant, the flame eventually turn white purplish in color then grow brighter and bigger! It went on for about a minute and eventually got to about four ft tall and lit the whole back yard up. It was beautiful!!! Now I am totally hooked to pyro! I want to learn how to make beautiful and amazing thing related to pyro but at same time I want to play it safely! So... I'd appreciate any feedback on how I've been approaching this first project all way along. As for my next plan, I'm hoping to remake the flare then a colored smoke bomb.
PurpleFlare Posted May 11, 2011 Author Posted May 11, 2011 Geez no feedback? I guess I must be doing everything right then.
dagabu Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 No, we are just dumbfounded is all. This really has no practical use in pyrotechnics. Flares are seldom used in pyrotechnics and no body I know would waste good shellac on a flare. We are here to help with pyro, you tell us how this fits into the field and you will get some help. -dag
optimus Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 That's a slightly odd approach to making a flare but at least it sounds like you're doing things relatively methodically and safely. Since you already have Potassium Nitrate, I suggest you acquire some Charcoal and Sulphur. You'd be surprised how many effects can be achieved with these 3 ingredients, even without using your Aluminium powder. Then I'd start by making a few fountains and move up from there to more advanced effects. You'll need a fair few more chemicals to make any coloured flares or smokes and I would leave those for a while until you're familiarised with the basics. There are a few threads with suggestions for good books for beginners, certainly worth a look.
PurpleFlare Posted May 11, 2011 Author Posted May 11, 2011 Well flare may don't have much to do with pyro, but it is what spark up my interest in trying to actually make something more exciting to see. Plus it including work with fire and flammable chemical so I'm pretty sure that the precaution is similar to basic guideline and everything. I wasn't sure if I was doing things the right way and would like to know if I am testing and approaching this the right way before I actually go out to try something new. I'm not sure why my approach is slightly odd, but I'm always suspicious of any new recipe when it come to things like this. As there are many idiots out there who use dangerous highly sensitive materials and have no clue on what they're doing. So I was trying to play it as safe as possible. If there's a better way to test things out, I'd like to hear it please. I'll try to find some sulfur, it turn out to be pretty hard to find it! It was a pain in the neck to try find potassium nitrate! Went to four different places and none have it then finally I threw the towel in and went to home depot and got it. I hope sulfur will not be as hard to find. I'd like to make a fountain the next as it seems to be similar to flare and safer than other types of pyro. Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it.
optimus Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 This really has no practical use in pyrotechnics. Flares are seldom used in pyrotechnics and no body I know would waste good shellac on a flare. We are here to help with pyro, you tell us how this fits into the field and you will get some help. -dag Why the negativity? It obviously has a practical use in pyrotechnics because his flare made a 4ft flame and lit up the garden. No idea where you got the idea that they're seldom used - they're used all the time. I routinely use shellac in flares, granted not flares with Potassium Nitrate and Al powder, but still flares.
Mumbles Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 It's difficult to tell from the post, but you will make yours and everyone else's lives easier if you are working with proportions by weight, not volume. I agree with Optimus, getting the components to make black powder will open up an entire new field of pyro. One can spend years and years working with just 4 or 5 components. For what it's worth, colored smoke devices are much harder than they may seem. They cannot be made with a potassium nitrate/sugar base despite what a bunch of BS videos on YouTube, Indestructibles, metacafe, etc. will claim.
dagabu Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) It was just factual, that's all, didn't gush the emoticons Sorry if that was too harsh PF, thanks for pulling me in Optimus I based my reply on 23 shows, a week at PGI, a spring and fall shoot with a total of about 50,000 devices being displayed last year. I saw four flares.... None of them were shellac based. My thinking is that we need to get this gent on the track of building for display as he has shown the penchant to be able to make a usable device from a few odd chemicals. -dag Edited May 11, 2011 by dagabu
PurpleFlare Posted May 11, 2011 Author Posted May 11, 2011 Thanks everyone for the input! I made a crude scale on my own. I use a plastic strap with line draw on it trapped between two bricks then put bottle cap on end and if I want, I can add powder to it until the end of the scale touch the table. Would this be ok? Or do I need a accurate scale? About black powder, what if I have a black powder already? As for sulfur, I saw a huge bottle of snake repellent, it is like 96% sulfur and other earth. Not sure if this would work or not but please let me know. Thanks for the warning about the smoke device! Dagabu, no worry. I understood I didn't made my question clear. I was just really excited about the flare and want to move onto something better.
dagabu Posted May 11, 2011 Posted May 11, 2011 Dagabu, no worry. I understood I didn't made my question clear. I was just really excited about the flare and want to move onto something better. Cool, lets get you rock and rolling! You mentioned The Home Depot, does that mean that you live in the USA? If so, I can give you contacts for all the chems you will need. No more using "Snake Repellent" for sulfur. -dag
PurpleFlare Posted May 12, 2011 Author Posted May 12, 2011 Cool, lets get you rock and rolling! You mentioned The Home Depot, does that mean that you live in the USA? If so, I can give you contacts for all the chems you will need. No more using "Snake Repellent" for sulfur. -dag LMAO! Yes I live in USA. Is it really worth it buying chemical on internet? I have always heard it is more expensive in many cases. Oh! I also hate the whole shipping thing!
nater Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 LMAO! Yes I live in USA. Is it really worth it buying chemical on internet? I have always heard it is more expensive in many cases. Oh! I also hate the whole shipping thing! The cheapest way I have found to buy anything is by joining a club. Our local club has a few vendors who set up at every meet, they have more than fair prices and you don't have to get anything shipped. You might find that some of the hobby vendors are cheaper, even with shipping, than using products from the hardware store.
dagabu Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 LMAO! Yes I live in USA. Is it really worth it buying chemical on internet? I have always heard it is more expensive in many cases. Oh! I also hate the whole shipping thing! $72.00 for 50# of KNO3 delivered. Thats a buck fifty a pound for pure stuff. -dag
PurpleFlare Posted May 12, 2011 Author Posted May 12, 2011 I just talk to a friend about this whole thing. Turn out, he have accessible to chemicals! Where can I find a good list of chemicals to have as a beginner?
dagabu Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 I just talk to a friend about this whole thing. Turn out, he have accessible to chemicals! Where can I find a good list of chemicals to have as a beginner? Go ahead and do a search of this web site and read what has already been posted about beginners. You will find lists, projects, books, sources and ideas. Happy reading -dag
Peret Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 $72.00 for 50# of KNO3 delivered. Thats a buck fifty a pound for pure stuff. Only a few weeks ago it was $50, and not long before that $35! I think I'll sell some gold and put potassium nitrate in the vault instead.
sharpKD Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 CALLING ALL BLACKPOWDER ENTHUSIASTS Have you ever shot an anvil? We want to hear from you! 1 lb of black powder 100 pounds of steel 1 unforgettably explosive competition Farmington, Missouri, Chamber of Commerce Proudly Presents: Country Days 2011 ANVIL SHOOTING COMPETITION June 3-4, 2011 TO FIND OUT MORE CONTACT… Doug McDermott President/CEO of the Farmington Chamber of Commerce Email: chamber@farmingtonmo.org Call: 573-756-3615 www.farmingtoncountrydays.com
guntoteninfadel Posted May 13, 2011 Posted May 13, 2011 sharpKD....... be sure to take a video camera!
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