Flash powder?

[gsmkkji]

is there only like 1 type of flash powder or many types , i dont understand

likes theres differnet formuals but are like the reactions, burn time or speed or light or sound the same or different for each formula?

new to this, made black powder before, so i know to be l careful ,

[alexthegreat00]

You would get a much better response if you used correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar.

[Xtreme Pyro]

I don't understand why you keep making threads asking about flash.. your other threads have already been closed by a mod and your still not getting the hint. To answer your question, YES there are many different types of flash powder and if you need to continue asking questions like this, you obviously need to do more research. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, you do NOT need to be messing with flash if you are new to this hobby, but if you insist on making it I highly suggest reading this thread. PLEASE BE SAFE!!

[dagabu]

Sorry, not going to answer, you need to read up on the basics first, flash at this point will only get you in trouble.

 

No k3wlz, no way.

 

-dag

[killforfood]

gmslkhbf... Whatever your name is?

Are you not interested in surviving to the ripe old age of puberty?

I predict you will be wall spackle before the mods can ban you.

 

Instead of tarnishing our hobby, you should at least try to survive until drinking age.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/killforfood/Pyro/DarwinAwards.png

 

Oh what the heck, here's a tutorial. try this.

http://www.darwinawa...win2006-14.html

[MadMax]

gsmkkji,

 

People in pyrotechnics only use 1 type of flash. 70% potassium perchlorate and 30% aluminum powder. Yes there are others that burn slower/faster but they aren't safe to make. The 70/30 is the most powerful and safest in my opinion. We don't risk making other powders as some are unstable and will auto-ingite randomly or with rough handling.

 

Flash is an entirely different animal then black powder. It is extremely powerful. Where black powder will burn your arm the same amount of flash powder will leave you with a shreaded arm.

 

I'm not discouraging you from pyro I'm just saying if you're gonna do it, do it right and don't fuck around with other formulas.

 

Now get off the topic for a bit so people can all chill.

[Ralph]

is there only like 1 type of flash powder or many types , i dont understand

likes theres differnet formuals but are like the reactions, burn time or speed or light or sound the same or different for each formula?

new to this, made black powder before, so i know to be l careful ,

 

Oi giberish name youve had all your flash powder threads locked your are a moron you don't poses the maturity seems not the brain capacity nor the experience to be making flash MODs don't like having to lock threads and deal with us bashing you , so stop asking about flash start doing some real pyro or don't expect to be here long

[frostbyte]

Since I can't post a new thread, I'll reply here as it seems this guy gets his threads closed a lot.

 

Newbie here that's just learning.

 

Is a Salute a firework in it's completed form?

 

What is a charged casing?

 

Just some questions as I was reading through the safety thread.

 

I also was reading one on how to make Black Powder. It mentioned smashing the mixture through a coffee filter onto newspaper. If your application was different and I don't know what that could be, but could you NOT mash it through, but pour the mixture into some form and still get the same end result from it after it had weeks to dry?

 

Also, while making the powder of charcoal, could you just blend that up in an electric blender like a Blendtec which blends it all? Doing this instead of a tumbler?

 

As far as just straight cost is concerned, if you do it yourself, how much will it cost in raw materials? How much total time for a certain amount of BP? Such as 10 lb takes 12 hours of work time which also takes 4 days total time as an example? I found a source that sells BP for around $65 shipped for 8 lbs. I like the idea of making it myself to add to the hobby experience, but in looking at the costs, it may not be worth all the extra trouble? I still enjoy just the learning aspects of it even if I never actually make my own.

 

If you were to put Flash powder in a bullet, what would be the result vs BP? I assume you'd likely blow your gun up and get hurt badly in the process, but just curious. BP seemed to be a great accelerant. I have no clue what properties Flash has and I'm sure it's a stupid question, but it's more of a theoretical learning question.

[dagabu]

Since I can't post a new thread, I'll reply here as it seems this guy gets his threads closed a lot.

 

Newbie here that's just learning.

 

Is a Salute a firework in it's completed form?

 

I just love this stuff! A salute is a loud report that simulates the emptying of a black powder cannon showing respect and trust to the one you are approaching. It is a finished firework, but its is not a display piece, it is normally *just noise.

 

What is a charged casing?

 

I am not familiar with charging a casing in fireworks, I do that while adding a pre-measured amount of smokeless powder into a brass casing just before pressing a bullet into the mouth.

 

 

Just some questions as I was reading through the safety thread.

 

I also was reading one on how to make Black Powder. It mentioned smashing the mixture through a coffee filter onto newspaper. If your application was different and I don't know what that could be, but could you NOT mash it through, but pour the mixture into some form and still get the same end result from it after it had weeks to dry?

 

Sounds like the CIA method. That is an expensive and unnecessary method of making BP. Ballmilling and pressing pucks is by far a better process and simply ballmilling BP and rising it is still much easier and cheaper then the CIA method.

 

Also, while making the powder of charcoal, could you just blend that up in an electric blender like a Blendtec which blends it all? Doing this instead of a tumbler?

 

Well..... there is a guy here that may have had a little accident doing just that thing a while ago and I can attest that it did not turn out well for him at all. I dont suggest you try it.

 

As far as just straight cost is concerned, if you do it yourself, how much will it cost in raw materials? How much total time for a certain amount of BP? Such as 10 lb takes 12 hours of work time which also takes 4 days total time as an example? I found a source that sells BP for around $65 shipped for 8 lbs. I like the idea of making it myself to add to the hobby experience, but in looking at the costs, it may not be worth all the extra trouble? I still enjoy just the learning aspects of it even if I never actually make my own.

 

NOT including the ball mill cost, I can make BP for about $1.00 a pound right now. Commercially, I pay about $10.00 a pound in bulk for 2FA. That makes it well worth the time and price.

 

If you were to put Flash powder in a bullet, what would be the result vs BP? I assume you'd likely blow your gun up and get hurt badly in the process, but just curious. BP seemed to be a great accelerant. I have no clue what properties Flash has and I'm sure it's a stupid question, but it's more of a theoretical learning question.

 

First of all, there is no BP or any other propellant inside bullets, the bullet sits on top of the propellant. Yes, the flash would likely end up breaking something or bursting the chamber. My uncle was a Ranger in Viet Nam, he took little pieces of C-4 and curled them up, popped the bullets out of AK ammo he found after a fire fight, inserted the C-4 and put the bullets back into the casing. He then placed the explosive filled round in a discarded AK magazine 2-3 rounds down inside the stack.

 

He told me that he would hear the unmistakable, tat, tat, tat of the AK followed by a CRACK and then no more firing for a while. The upper chamber would disintegrate and drive the rear bold right back out the end of the receiver and into the eye of the NVA.

 

-dag

[SjeefOne]

First of all, there is no BP or any other propellant inside bullets, the bullet sits on top of the propellant. Yes, the flash would likely end up breaking something or bursting the chamber. My uncle was a Ranger in Viet Nam, he took little pieces of C-4 and curled them up, popped the bullets out of AK ammo he found after a fire fight, inserted the C-4 and put the bullets back into the casing. He then placed the explosive filled round in a discarded AK magazine 2-3 rounds down inside the stack.

He told me that he would hear the unmistakable, tat, tat, tat of the AK followed by a CRACK and then no more firing for a while. The upper chamber would disintegrate and drive the rear bold right back out the end of the receiver and into the eye of the NVA.

-dag

Dag, C4 doesn't detonate from a cartridge primer..

[dagabu]

Dag, C4 doesn't detonate from a cartridge primer..

 

I'm sorry but I did not mention "detonation" in my post, I shared an anecdote from my uncle in a general relation to the substitution of flash with smokeless powder. Flash also does not detonate but just like C-4 under confinement, a fast increase of gasses occures causing an over pressure beyond the ability of the chamber to hold said overpressure.

 

It is helpful if you share the background of you knowlage with us rather then just make a statement debunking an old Rangers war story.

 

-dag

[SjeefOne]

I'm sorry but I did not mention "detonation" in my post, I shared an anecdote from my uncle in a general relation to the substitution of flash with smokeless powder. Flash also does not detonate but just like C-4 under confinement, a fast increase of gasses occures causing an over pressure beyond the ability of the chamber to hold said overpressure.

 

It is helpful if you share the background of you knowlage with us rather then just make a statement debunking an old Rangers war story.

 

-dag

I'll tread carefully here as I know HE is not to be discussed in the non HE section. what I can say is that C4 is supposed to withstand a lot of abuse (and that includes being hit by a large caliber round) so I'd say adding pieces of it inside a cartridge shell would probably do very little in regard to aided combustion / chamber overpressure. Google "operation eldest son", you'll see some examples of how the US MACV SOG used sabotage rounds filled with PETN to cause morale degradation under NVA troops who had their AK's blow up on them.

 

Not trying to debunk anything though, these stories are entertaining at least.

[dagabu]

Good to know, it may very well have been PETN and not C-4. I was not there and really dont know what he used. Since its HE and I know 0% about HE, Im going to drop the whole issue.

 

-dag

[frostbyte]

Who is HE?

 

(Sort of making a joke as I know it's not a person, but also showing my ignorance in this field. I assume it's a chemical or something I can look up)

 

Thanks for the information. I don't see how mixing the fuel portion of BP in a blender is bad though. Other than for the blender possibly. If you don't add the other part shouldn't it be OK?

 

Also, in thinking more about my Flash in a bullet question, if it is so unstable, and percussion can set it off, would a theoretical use for it also be that you could load a blank in the chamber with a Flash in the 2nd round and the blank's percussion would set off the Flash round at the same basic time causing the gun to blow up? Would Flash in a bullet work similar in the propellant of an item out of the chamber like BP other than it being too powerful for the gun to handle? Curious if the metal part of a bullet is still going to leave the gun like normal if it did happen. That could make for a nasty possibility of sabotage. In a recent episode of Nikita, the evil boss rigged an electric shock to his trigger knowing his right hand man would try and use it against him. Just thinking a real world solution could be something like my option. I also assume it could easily or highly possibly be unstable enough to go off at a completely unwanted time as well instead of just when another round was fired.

[SjeefOne]

Flash has no use as propellant as it burns way too fast.

Perhaps it would propel the projectile out of the barrel but it would allmost certainly damage the gun.

 

Don't know how much use this discussion has as pyrotechnicians do their utmost not to damage anything,including living beings (hence the use of paper and other non-shrapnel-producing materials).

[Mumbles]

As far as grinding charcoal in a blender, my accident was actually with a coffee grinder. One of the potential ignition sources is getting into the motor, which is minimized with a blender having a separate blending compartment. However, if it was metal or a rock or something in the charcoal, it would still have the same danger if not more due to the increased volume. The issue comes from air, which contains oxygen, being mixed in with the charcoal powder. Any ignition source can cause a fuel air explosion. This is one of the big dangers to making flour, coal, etc.

 

As for the flash in bullets, I suggest you drop it. It's not a good idea, nor will we condone using it for intentional sabotage purposes (literal or theoretical application).

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Your accident happened with charcoal and oxygen? and a spark obviously...

[Mumbles]

Yes, it happened due to charcoal lighting up in a coffee grinder, but was GREATLY exacerbated due to some nearby BP. My legal issues are just about solved, so once that happens the whole story will come out.

[nater]

Frostbyte -

 

HE - is commonly used as an acronym for High Explosives.

 

The "metal part" you mentioned IS the bullet. It sits on top of gun powder (not black powder), then there is a primer and the shell casing.

 

 

As it is mentioned, I wouldn't grind charcoal in anything that can produce a spark. Almost ANYTHING ground fine enough will have the capability of igniting with the smallest spark. Flour, sugar, other grain dust, metals, carbon, etc... Most people I know use a ball mill to grind charcoal down, I know a few who use old hand crank meat grinders, but that looks really messy.

[Peret]

Never mind the HE, I want to know where Frostbyte gets 8 pounds of commercial BP for $65 including shipping. That's under $5 a pound after deducting the hazmat charge.

[frostbyte]

Never mind the HE, I want to know where Frostbyte gets 8 pounds of commercial BP for $65 including shipping. That's under $5 a pound after deducting the hazmat charge.

 

 

I thought black powder was gun powder since they sell it in ammo stores often times that I believe is meant for the purpose of making your own ammo. That is how I have ended up here. More curiosity in continuing my hobby and I love education. I am studying psychology and physics with a little biology in there as well. I like to ask questions and every time I learn a little in one area it opens up millions of questions which lead to more questions and areas.

 

I got BP at Wideners Reloading & Shooting Supply Inc . They had a military grade in bulk. $50 to $55 if I remember right. I got 32 lbs and $25 for handing fee for it all. If you can mill it for $1 a lb though, that's much less still.

 

So if you put steal balls in charcoal to grind it up, how is that not going to cause a spark vs a blender? One obviously goes faster, but once it's a powder, won't the steal balls be just as bad as a blade spinning? Obviously not, but just more of the question of understanding it in my brain.

 

Also, if I don't know what is potentially harmful, then how can I make sure I'm being safe. My question about the gun just seems like a practical application that has many safety concerns built in. I could just as easily say that I shoot a gun standing 5 feet from a loose pile of Flash. Will the gun percussion set off the Flash? I'm just trying to figure out how exactly someone would handle a product that is so dangerous that people are worried about static in the air, loud noises, etc, but then they are able to put it in a firework and with all that blasting going on it somehow doesn't set them off. Seems a ton of safety precautions are in place until it's in a firework and then people sell those at stores and don't worry about movement, noise, etc. So the question side of me is wondering what I'm missing going from powder to what seems to be more dangerous by putting it in a confined space like a firework. BP causes more damage when confined as the gasses expand. I assume it's the same principle with flash, but it doesn't need to even be confined. There's a ton of info to learn so if I ever was to handle it, I could do so in safety. Knowing how to not handle it is as important as how to handle it, I think.

 

Just wait til I start asking questions about HE. I don't even know where to start on that one though...but not in this section I'm guessing.

[nater]

BP is in fact gun powder, but there are more types of gun powder than BP. In fact, most people do not use BP in firearms anymore, they use modern synthetic powders.

 

Most people do not use steel balls in their mills; lead, some ceramics, some stainless steel alloys are non-sparking.

[dagabu]

I thought black powder was gun powder since they sell it in ammo stores often times that I believe is meant for the purpose of making your own ammo.

 

Black powder is indeed the original gun powder but the current powder used in modern firearms is *Nitrocellulose based and is not normally used in pyrotechnics.

 

*Nitrocellulose, an energetic component of most smokeless propellants

Nitroglycerin, an energetic component of double-base and triple-base formulations

Nitroguanidine, a component of triple-base formulations

 

I got BP at Wideners Reloading & Shooting Supply Inc . They had a military grade in bulk. $50 to $55 if I remember right. I got 32 lbs and $25 for handing fee for it all. If you can mill it for $1 a lb though, that's much less still.

 

Was it Black Powder or Smokeless? That would be an incredible price for smokeless

 

.

So if you put steal balls in charcoal to grind it up, how is that not going to cause a spark vs a blender? One obviously goes faster, but once it's a powder, won't the steal balls be just as bad as a blade spinning?

 

Steel (not steal) balls in a ball mill just dont have the stored energy needed to create a hot enough spark to light the charcoal. I dont use steel for charcoal though.

 

So the question side of me is wondering what I'm missing going from powder to what seems to be more dangerous by putting it in a confined space like a firework. BP causes more damage when confined as the gasses expand. I assume it's the same principle with flash, but it doesn't need to even be confined.

 

Brisance is the shattering capability of an explosive. It is this brisance that is the biggest difference between BP and flash. Confine like amounts of the two and you will get very different sounds from the reports. This is the brisance that we hear. This is also the reason that flash would harm a firearm, the spike in pressure would be greater then the gun could withstand, the brisance would not "push" the bullet out of the barrel but would instead react to the shock of the detonation.

 

Just wait til I start asking questions about HE. I don't even know where to start on that one though...but not in this section I'm guessing.

 

Correct, we dont talk HE here, those guys are a whole different breed...

 

-dag

[Algenco]

Never mind the HE, I want to know where Frostbyte gets 8 pounds of commercial BP for $65 including shipping. That's under $5 a pound after deducting the hazmat charge.

 

 

I was wondering about that myself , don't forget actual shipping charge in addition to the Hazmat fee

[Bonny]

 

Just wait til I start asking questions about HE. I don't even know where to start on that one though...but not in this section I'm guessing.

 

 

I don't think you're ready, or will be able to ask anything about HE (here on the forum) anytime soon. You need to start reading and learning first. This hobby is an endless journey of learning, always new things to learn and old ones to remember. Take it slow and keep safe.