mfstraydog1 Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 i am looking for a good willow comp. i have found two. Potassium perchlorate 30 Lampblack 30 Charcoal, Pine Airfloat 25 Potassium nitrate 10 Dextrin 5 Shellac this one is from pyroguide. i dont know if i like the idea of using the perchlorate in this comp. the other one is the willow dendim star. which has TI.anyone know any good willow comps i could try.
Ralph Posted April 25, 2011 Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) i am looking for a good willow comp. i have found two. Potassium perchlorate 30 Lampblack 30 Charcoal, Pine Airfloat 25 Potassium nitrate 10 Dextrin 5 Shellac this one is from pyroguide. i dont know if i like the idea of using the perchlorate in this comp. the other one is the willow dendim star. which has TI.anyone know any good willow comps i could try. you must be some what blind on the same page we find Charcoal, Pine Airfloat45Potassium nitrate35Sulfur12SGRS or Dextrin8like you Im a fan of the metal free willows and also dont see the point in burning money using perc in a willow comp you can try TT with half the charcoal swapped out for lamp black EDIT the table looked nice than the forum rapped it and made it look gay so I fixed it up Edited April 25, 2011 by Ralph
mfstraydog1 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Posted April 26, 2011 ya i saw the other 2 comps. but was set on using lamp black. i think i will try two different batches of the willow dendim comp. one with the standard and one with modification u recommend Ralph.
Mumbles Posted April 26, 2011 Posted April 26, 2011 Perchlorate and chlorate have been used for a long time in willows and charcoal streamers. They provide more oxygen and tend to burn more violently than nitrate. This allows one to use a higher charcoal:oxidizer ratio, which can get more charcoal burning in the air. One of the tricks to making nice willows is antimony trisulfide, but not many do it. It brightens the color of the tail, and gives a somewhat unique elegance to the tail IMO. Replacing 5-6 parts of the charcoal in TT is a pretty good place to start. This formula probably wont burn quite as long, but it hangs for a while: "Long Hangtime Willow" Taken almost verbatim from a rec.pyro post by Mike Swisher. I've made crossettes with these a couple times, they should also be good in a spider shell. 53.6 Potassium Nitrate23.0 Charcoal (Airfloat)13.4 Sulfur4.0 Lampblack6.0 Dextrin Preparation "Sieve the saltpeter, sulfur and dextrin individually through 40-mesh. Discard anything that doesn't pass 40-mesh. Separately, sieve the charcoal through 40-mesh and discard anything that doesn't pass 40-mesh. Now add the lampblack to the mixed saltpeter, sulfur,and dextrine. Hand-mix and sieve the mixture through 40-mesh onto the charcoal. The reason for this is that the lampblack is almost impossible to sieve by itself, and the other materials help it pass through the fine screen. Now blend all the ingredients by hand and sieve three times through 20-mesh." Dampen with 6% water and pump. (works best to add the H2O to comp in a ziplock bag, knead well, let it rest 15 minutes, then knead well again ) Here is another I've always wanted to try. The "clark" in question is that of Clark's Giant Steel Fountain fame. Davis gives credit for the following "willow tree stars" to Clark: Lampblack -- 3 lbs.meal powder -- 4 lbsantimony sulfide -- 1/2 lbshellac -- 2 ounces disolved in alcohol
mfstraydog1 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Posted May 25, 2011 Well this is the willow comp i settled in on. In the directions after wetting and drying, the comp has to be balled milled so it will work properly. has anyone had any experiences ball milling this comp. KClO4 30Lamp Black 30Charcoal (pine) 25KNO3 10Dex 5Shellac 5
Mumbles Posted May 25, 2011 Posted May 25, 2011 I don't know if I'd mill it with the perchlorate in there. It tends to be more impact sensitive than nitrates. Get a video of the final stars, I bet they're mighty impressive.
mfstraydog1 Posted May 26, 2011 Author Posted May 26, 2011 That is what i was thinking too. I was not to sure about ball milling the perchlorate. but the author says after wetting the comp, it becomes a little more insensitive. i will get a vidio of the star when i test fire it. i plan on making a few willow shells for the 4th.
usapyro Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) That is what i was thinking too. I was not to sure about ball milling the perchlorate. but the author says after wetting the comp, it becomes a little more insensitive. i will get a vidio of the star when i test fire it. i plan on making a few willow shells for the 4th. I see those same instructions on pyroguide... And I suspect the instructions are only for the KNO3 willow... Someone else probably tossed in the KClO3 and KClO4 compositions without thinking of adding a note. Edited May 30, 2011 by usapyro
mfstraydog1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 KClO4 30Lamp Black 30Charcoal (pine) 25KNO3 10Dex 5Shellac 5 Well this comp did not work out to well. I even ball milled it for a few hours. The problem is the comp in powder form will not stay lit.so i am going to still pump them to see if it makes any difference. But i don't think it will. so i am back to the drawing board. i think i will be trying out the Long Hang Time Willow. If anyone has any advise on the failed comp let me know. i would like to try it again to see if it was something i did wrong.
usapyro Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) KClO4 30Lamp Black 30Charcoal (pine) 25KNO3 10Dex 5Shellac 5 Well this comp did not work out to well. I even ball milled it for a few hours. The problem is the comp in powder form will not stay lit.so i am going to still pump them to see if it makes any difference. But i don't think it will. so i am back to the drawing board. i think i will be trying out the Long Hang Time Willow. If anyone has any advise on the failed comp let me know. i would like to try it again to see if it was something i did wrong. Willows in powder form never stay lit in my experience... When the KNO3/KCLO4 get soaked into the charcoal a bit it will tend to burn too fast. Need to work on my willow formulas a bit more... I like em to burn as slow as possible. It's kind of funny how it is... Willow powders don't usually burn until made into stars... After wet and pressed they often burn too fast like a tiger tail or chrysanthemum. Ha... Wetting, granulating, ball milling, then wetting again and pressing gives you the fastest burn possible for the KNO3 willows. For example this KClO3 Comp I use (Warning: Chlorate, No ball milling/sulfur touching)KCLO3 WillowKCLO3 30gKNO3 10gC 60gBinder (Water) +5g It doesn't burn after the fine powders are screened... However, after the comp is wet and pressed it burns plenty fast. Edited June 12, 2011 by usapyro
mfstraydog1 Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 wow Thanks for the info Usapyro.this gives me hope on getting the stars to work. Going to pump the in the morning.
Peret Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 You're gonna have to shoot those stars to see what they look like - you'll get no impression on the ground. They have such a massive excess of fuel that they need to be moving through the air to get enough oxygen. On the ground they'll just fizz and smoke feebly and leave a star-shaped charcoal cinder. No need to make a shell - just fire them roman-candle fashion from a cardboard tube.
KruseMissile Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 since we are talking about willows, when I primed my Potassium nitrate and charcoal willow with green mix. It doesn't light them. What prime would be best for it??
mfstraydog1 Posted June 14, 2011 Author Posted June 14, 2011 Well i just pumped out two different willow comps. Did a test burn and all went well. i will be testing a few out in a star gun this weekend to see how they hold up. I will try to video it so everyone can see.
Mumbles Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 I hate to repeat info, but yes, most willow stars will only function properly fired from a stargun or a shell.
dagabu Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 I just finished pumping some willow style stars that dont use KCLO3 but just KNO3 as the oxidizer and they do just as Peret says on the ground but are impressive in the air. So much so that I rolled a couple kilos of them last weekend. -dag
Mumbles Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 since we are talking about willows, when I primed my Potassium nitrate and charcoal willow with green mix. It doesn't light them. What prime would be best for it?? Willows are a tricky thing. You can try a hotter prime, but it may do no good. Green meal with some metal in it should light it for sure. However, not all charcoal is created equally. If you used the willow formula from Shimizu, several people have had issues with it not lighting no matter what. It works for some, but not others. You may need to increase the KNO3:charcoal ratio a few parts in order to make it reliably burn.
Zmuro Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 I just finished pumping some willow style stars that dont use KCLO3 but just KNO3 as the oxidizer and they do just as Peret says on the ground but are impressive in the air. So much so that I rolled a couple kilos of them last weekend. -dagWhat formula did you use?
dagabu Posted June 14, 2011 Posted June 14, 2011 What formula did you use?Oh, there was no "formula" per se but rather a high charcoal rocket fuel that didn't provide any thrust. It ended up being pretty close to the standard Takeo Shimizu willow but leaning to tiger tail with dextrine instead of SGRS. -dag
Peret Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 Oh, there was no "formula" per se but rather a high charcoal rocket fuel that didn't provide any thrust.Haha, I'm not the only one then! My C8 is surplus 60:30:10 with 18 additional charcoal.
mfstraydog1 Posted July 7, 2011 Author Posted July 7, 2011 Here is one of the 5" willow shell. The video does not catch the full affect of the comets. Yes i know the rising tail was off and so was the timing of the brake. To be honest this was my first 5" shell and i used the cheap white time fuse this year and 1/3 of the shells did not go. MVI_1204.AVI
Bilbobaker Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Here is one of the 5" willow shell. The video does not catch the full affect of the comets. Yes i know the rising tail was off and so was the timing of the brake. To be honest this was my first 5" shell and i used the cheap white time fuse this year and 1/3 of the shells did not go. MVI_1204.AVI Very nice willow, how high did it go?
mfstraydog1 Posted July 8, 2011 Author Posted July 8, 2011 The shell broke about 300 ft up. it was a little low for a 5"
allrocketspsl Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 Here is one of the 5" willow shell. The video does not catch the full affect of the comets. Yes i know the rising tail was off and so was the timing of the brake. To be honest this was my first 5" shell and i used the cheap white time fuse this year and 1/3 of the shells did not go. MVI_1204.AVI great shell mate loved the comets what comp did you use if you dont mind? Jeff
mfstraydog1 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Posted July 30, 2011 the comets were 1" X 3/4 "Long Hangtime Willow" 53.6 Potassium Nitrate23.0 Charcoal (Airfloat)13.4 Sulfur4.0 Lampblack6.0 Dextrin Burst 5/1 KP 1
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