Rolled stars

[pyrogeorge]

Hi,

I rolled some emeraled green star cores to c8 and the final stars are not perfect round stars..

why?

you can see the photo..

thanks

http://i51.tinypic.com/nla3pz.jpg

[Algenco]

ah, the dreaded Raspberry

There is a lot of discusion as to why, type of roller, water, alcohol,comp to fine, etc

usually more water/alcohol will smooth them out

 

http://www.amateurpy...h&fromMainBar=1

Edited April 19, 2011 by Algenco

[pyrogeorge]

i didn't use alcohol..only water for c8 composition..

[Algenco]

a little more water and let them roll longer

You might try 75/25 water-alcohol

[dagabu]

The Toro method (or a bastardization of it) works for me what when I get raspberries. Edited April 19, 2011 by dagabu

[pyrogeorge]

i hope that the result will be the same as round stars..

[fredhappy]

I assume you did not let them dry, and the raspberries are stil wet? I don't know if my advice below will work out when the raspberries have been dried hard.

Ok, this is how I turn these raspberries into nice round stars again: wet them with 75/25 water alcohol. ( 50/50 will work too, just test a bit).

 

Now there is a very thin line between wet enough and too wet, it's hard to explain. Basically you want to make the surface of

the star quite wet and just let roll until the rasperries have smoothed out.Don't be tempted to add any composition during this process, doing so

will result in raspberries again. Just wetting and let them smooth out by letting them just roll . I ve turned large batches of raspberries into perfectly round stars, it can be done!

 

Toro will only work real well when stars are already a minimum of 6 mm. It is however a great method for adding that first layer of hotprime/prime to your already dried stars.If you try

to use the toro method with very small stars ( 4 -6 mm ) , they tend to clump very fast. I personally use spray and sprinkle to get them up to 6 mm, but it is only a matter of preference.

Edited April 19, 2011 by fredhappy

[pyrogeorge]

If the emerald green cores didn't dry at all,can make raspberries to c8?

[dagabu]

They look to be around the 10mm mark. I just mix one part of my dry comp to water (1:10) so that it is really thin like heavy whipping cream and pour it on the surface of the roller, not on the stars, they roll over it pretty easily when they have bumps that big and the bumps get wet and fill the groves in between.

 

Again, in my experience only, your mileage may vary.

[pyrogeorge]

My rolling in action

 

[Mumbles]

If the emerald green cores didn't dry at all,can make raspberries to c8?

 

I don't think that would cause rasberries, but it could cause cracking/drying problems.

 

Rasberries are caused by uneven wetting of the surface of the star. Some parts are wetter than others, so pick up more composition. High charcoal stars are notorious for doing this as the charcoal likes to grab and hold onto water instead of letting it diffuse around. This is why the toro type method can help to alleviate this problem. Many times it is caused by impatience. You have to give the stars time to roll around and evenly distribute the moisture before adding the comp. This takes much longer than with typical color stars.

 

Granulating the C8 comp, and milling until 100-200 mesh has been said to help prevent this problem.

[pyrogeorge]

Next time i will try toro method..thanks for the help!!

[dagabu]

Many times it is caused by impatience. You have to give the stars time to roll around and evenly distribute the moisture before adding the comp. This takes much longer than with typical color stars.

 

That is so true, I am so tightly wound that its all I can do to roll a batch of D-1 stars and I usually abandon the job till the next day after I get 3-4mm cores rolled. I found the Toro method to be a wonderful cheat and it also allows me to leave the roller spinning while I go back to the shop and build something.

 

Interestingly, the first stars I "tried" to roll were gelatin capsules full of flash, I am sure we all know how that one ended.

[pyrogeorge]

dagabu how did you roll D1 stars?I tried but the water destroy the gliiter effect..any tip for D1 stars?

[dagabu]

I used RO/DI water and rolled it on de-hulled Millet seed that was dusted with bentonite clay. Lots of work.... I found that I dont kill the glitter of any star as long as I use a bit of sodium bicarbonate and use pure water like I can get from a RO/DI system.

 

I have a crap load of airsoft BBs that my adult sons left at home when they moved out, I find that they work really well for cores on large stars but no so much for small stars.

 

When making D-1 stars I found that if I added WAY too much comp, I would get all sorts of tiny stars forming from clumps of D-1 and if I screened then in a 10 mesh (old gravy strainer) screen, I could save all of those D-1 mouse turds for star cores. SHHHHHHHH ! Don't tell anyone, my sons think I do it on purpose

 

P.S. Its a slow day so what the heck. I love making cut stars but hate the fact that they are square so as soon as I cut them I get a real fast coating of dry comp on them and scrape them off into an ice cream bucket, add a teaspoon of comp and roll the stars by hand until they start to roll well, give them a little spritz of water and then I spin them in the bucket for a few seconds, toss them, spin them, toss them and then throw them into the roller to roll for an hour.

 

They come out mostly round and are ready for a second color if I wish. An overnight stay in the leather hotel (dehydrator) and they just need a prime.

Edited April 19, 2011 by dagabu

[pyrogeorge]

any video with toro method?

[dagabu]

Toro:

 

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/03_b.wmv

 

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/rolling_0001.wmv

 

Take a look at these, I dont have time to review them but I think one of them is the Japanese video.

[pyrogeorge]

thanks dagabu..

 

Toro method used only for bigger stars ?for example can i star rolling with toro method or the cores will be stick together?

[fredhappy]

thanks dagabu..

 

Toro method used only for bigger stars ?for example can i star rolling with toro method or the cores will be stick together?

 

Do you actually bother to read the replies in a thread you've started yourself?

 

 

 

"Toro will only work real well when stars are already a minimum of 6 mm. It is however a great method for adding that first layer of hotprime/prime to your already dried stars.If you try

to use the toro method with very small stars ( 4 -6 mm ) , they tend to clump very fast. I personally use spray and sprinkle to get them up to 6 mm".

[pyrogeorge]

oops!i overlook it.. thanks man.

i will try it...

[pyrogeorge]

i try a batch of raspberries stars with toro method but raspberries remaining..

 

Don't be tempted to add any composition during this process, doing so

will result in raspberries again

 

i must add composition because i added to match toro..so that's why raspberries reamaining..

 

i will make new stars soon and i think will be better..

Edited April 21, 2011 by pyrogeorge

[fredhappy]

i try a batch of raspberries stars with toro method but raspberries remaining..

 

 

 

i must add composition because i added to match toro..so that's why raspberries reamaining..

 

i will make new stars soon and i think will be better..

 

 

Ok, I think you are mixing up two advices. You've got the toro route , and the simply wetting and letting roll route.

 

Your raspberries didn't look to bad in my opinion. Since they are heavily charcoal based stars, they, as mumbles pointed out, tend to get unevenly wet. When you then start scooping powder on these unevenly wet stars you get raspberries. When this starts to happen, simply wetting them with a 50/50 water/alcohol solution helps reduce surface tension and assists getting the stars thoroughly wet. Once you've got them nice and wet, just simply let them roll, they will smooth out eventually.

 

I too have noticed that raspberries have to do with being impatient. You spray the stars, and almost immediately dump on the powder. With C based stars

this is where you start growing raspberries. Just spray them and try letting them roll for a second of 40 .You'd be surprised how much more

evenly the water is distributed on the surface of the star. I find rolling stars a very relaxing job, just take it easy and keep looking how the stars

grow and anticipate on it.

 

I hope this helps.

Edited April 21, 2011 by fredhappy

[dagabu]

I find rolling stars a very relaxing job, just take it easy and keep looking how the stars

grow and anticipate on it.

 

I envy you Fred, I find rolling maddening and would rather cut them. I didn't mean to throw my method into the mix to confuse anyone, it was just a retelling of my experiences. I agree, wet them and walk away for a while, while they roll.

[pyrogeorge]

I used only water while rolling the stars.is this a problem?

 

i think in the next batch will be better..thanks for your help

[fredhappy]

I used only water while rolling the stars.is this a problem?

 

i think in the next batch will be better..thanks for your help

 

 

Yes, not adding 10 or 20 percent alcohol to your spray can result in C based stars starting to form raspberries. Its about surface tension , just lower it a bit with alcohol, and the stars will absorb the water more evenly. I always start with 50/50 alcohol /water( I use discodip as cores) , and once I ve got some powder on these tiny sugar balls, I switch to 75/25 alcohol.

 

Since alcohol impedes dextrin's binding properties , you should only use this mix for starting up, and "fixing"your raspberries. Although I ve succeeded in rolling batches of colour stars with the 50/50 mix , I found them more brittle then with a spay mix higher in water ratio. Simply said, there is more dextrin activated with the 75/25 percent mixture.

 

It is a bit hard to explain, try rolling some more, you will eventually get the hang of it.

 

@dagabu: I like rolling but really HATE screening my comps. it has to be done, but o boy, is it a messy dusty job.

Edited April 21, 2011 by fredhappy