Peret Posted April 17, 2011 Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) I decided to add crossettes to my repertoire this year. My tooling showed up today, so I figured to try it out. Here's a picture of the tooling, from USFC - Pyroworks. I don't have the courage to show you the results of my work yet because you would laugh. Let it be sufficient to say that I must have only got half the tool set, and I'm missing the bit that gets the damn things off the tool after they're pressed. Eventually, with about the eighth one I pressed and the application of Vaseline to the tool, I got one off intact and not too barrel-shaped. Edited April 17, 2011 by Peret
Mumbles Posted April 18, 2011 Posted April 18, 2011 For future reference, much higher quality tooling is available from Wolter and Ben Smith for about the same prices. The highly polished or nituff coated surfaces make it a dream to remove crossettes. I've found some sort of lubricant spray really helps. Graphite or teflon sprays are pretty popular. I've even used cooking spray with success. You'll also want to make sure the tooling is clean between pressings. An old toothbrush works well for that. You may be over wetting if the comp is sticking. You really don't need a lot of water when pressing comets.
WSM Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) For future reference, much higher quality tooling is available from Wolter and Ben Smith for about the same prices. The highly polished or nituff coated surfaces make it a dream to remove crossettes. I've found some sort of lubricant spray really helps. Graphite or teflon sprays are pretty popular. I've even used cooking spray with success. You'll also want to make sure the tooling is clean between pressings. An old toothbrush works well for that. You may be over wetting if the comp is sticking. You really don't need a lot of water when pressing comets. Another trick that has worked for me (using Wolter's tools) is this: When you push the crossette out of the pump, pull the plunger carefully back into the pump. When the crossette comes out of the pump, it swells slightly and will tend to stay at the outer edge of the tooling when you retract the plunger back into the pump. This all depends on proper moistening of the composition and compositions with a decent amount of charcoal in them really work well. Also be sure to use a good amount of force if hand pressing the crossettes. Experiment and see if it works for you, too ! WSM Oh, and I never added anything to lubricate the tool that might change the burning characteristics of the composition or contaminate it. Edited April 20, 2011 by WSM
Peret Posted April 20, 2011 Author Posted April 20, 2011 I made several mistakes, As Mumbles said, my mixture was too wet, so the comets were soft and rubbery. Also I was using a lot of titanium and it got between the plunger and the sleeve, jamming it so badly that after the first few I had to hammer on the plunger to push the crossette out of the tool, which caused some breakage. I had a hell of a job to clean it out. I got better results later with a C8 mixture, and six out of the first batch aren't too bad now they've dried.
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 (edited) There are a view hundred Chinese factories using these brass crosette pumps, there's no one messing around with teflon sprays or whatever. The advise I got is to use about 2% of graphite powder into your starcomposition.These crossettes break better than the ones made with tools from rich wolter, because the shape of the chinese crossettes is much better. Edited April 20, 2011 by FREAKYDUTCHMEN
Arthur Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 There is a youtube vid somewhere of and oriental person dipping a croissette tool in lubricant, then into a comp so dry that it has to be compacted with a mallet. Getting croissettes off the tool is hard and needs exactly the right technique for each compound. Comps with Ti do damage tools severely so I used hypodermic syringes cut to a disposable star pump. They get scratched so you bin them!
WSM Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 There is a youtube vid somewhere of and oriental person dipping a croissette tool in lubricant, then into a comp so dry that it has to be compacted with a mallet. Getting croissettes off the tool is hard and needs exactly the right technique for each compound. Comps with Ti do damage tools severely so I used hypodermic syringes cut to a disposable star pump. They get scratched so you bin them! There is a lot of good advice here. The technique used with your tooling should be matched to the individule composition and its degree of moistening. I made a 2" comet pump for a friend out of aluminum. He tried to press a charcoal comet with titanium . I made him a second aluminum comet pump and told him to put the first one on the mantle and look at it before considering doing that again!!! The first comet pump was galled together so badly it may as well have been welded . The best luck I ever had with hard metallic components was with a tight fitting nylon plunger in a polished stainless steel sleeve (even then the nylon plunger was only good for so many comets ). I like the disposable star pump idea . Use it, trash it, toss it and grab another! Brilliant!!! WSM
dagabu Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 For Ti comets I have a 1" pump with a -021 urethane o-ring that sits in a channel .01" set back from the edge of the pump. The stiffness of the o-ring acts as a scraper and keeps the pump from galling. Also, split PTFE o-rings are used in industrial settings for scraping the walls as well to keep sine metals from contacting rubber o-rings. I have not made this double wiper set yet but it looks extremely promising I have both a cavity and flat pump and I can take a picture if anyone wants to see what I am talking about.
Megladon Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 For future reference, much higher quality tooling is available from Wolter and Ben Smith for about the same prices. The highly polished or nituff coated surfaces make it a dream to remove crossettes. I've found some sort of lubricant spray really helps. Graphite or teflon sprays are pretty popular. I've even used cooking spray with success. You'll also want to make sure the tooling is clean between pressings. An old toothbrush works well for that. You may be over wetting if the comp is sticking. You really don't need a lot of water when pressing comets. I've done a few searches for Wolter and Ben Smith regarding pyro tools and was not able to turn up anything on the internets. Any chance I can get a link as I'm looking for quality tools for some stuff I hope to make. Thanks.
Mumbles Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Ben Smith: www.firesmithtools.com And really, you searched for Wolter and couldn't find anything? Typing in "Wolter tools" into google gives like 5 direct links to his website. www.wolterpyrotools.com
Megladon Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Ben Smith: www.firesmithtools.com And really, you searched for Wolter and couldn't find anything? Typing in "Wolter tools" into google gives like 5 direct links to his website. www.wolterpyrotools.com The way you had it writen was the way i did the search. I didnt know they were 2 different company's, i thought it was 1, so my searches included "Wolter and Ben Smith"; "Wolter and Ben Smith tools"; "Wolter and Ben Smith pyro tools"; "Wolter and Ben Smith pyro"; "Wolter and Ben Smith fireworks". I even figured maybe you spelled Wolter wrong, and it should have been walter and tried that. Thanks though for the link.
Mumbles Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Despite Ralph's atrocious spelling sometimes, it's actually Wolter. Extremely nice people if you ever get to meet them.
dagabu Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Despite Ralph's atrocious spelling sometimes, it's actually Wolter. Extremely nice people if you ever get to meet them. I know, I know, Rich and Claudia are swell people and all but I see Ben as a more inventive and polished toolmaker. -dag
stckmndn Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Quick question. I'm lifting soda can ID headers on 1 pound core burner rockets. What size crossette pumps should be considered? Don't want any fire coming down.
Mumbles Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I personally use 3/4" crossettes in 3" shells. If you use reasonable formulas, everything should burn up in the air. I'm indebted to the Wolters in more ways than one. I really like the NiTuff coating on certain items, crossettes being one of them.
stckmndn Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 I personally use 3/4" crossettes in 3" shells. If you use reasonable formulas, everything should burn up in the air. I'm indebted to the Wolters in more ways than one. I really like the NiTuff coating on certain items, crossettes being one of them. Thanks Mumbles. I'm partial to Rich and Claudia's products myself. Firesmith's tools are too large for my needs. What do you recommend I coat the crossette tool with? I have powdered graphite. Or would a spray be better?
Mumbles Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 It really depends. I've used everything from sailkote and graphite powder to PAM cooking spray. The biggest thing was always cleaning the tooling well with a tooth brush or something. Caked comp seems to make the comets stick more.
allrocketspsll Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I decided to add crossettes to my repertoire this year. My tooling showed up today, so I figured to try it out. Here's a picture of the tooling, from USFC - Pyroworks. I don't have the courage to show you the results of my work yet because you would laugh. Let it be sufficient to say that I must have only got half the tool set, and I'm missing the bit that gets the damn things off the tool after they're pressed. Eventually, with about the eighth one I pressed and the application of Vaseline to the tool, I got one off intact and not too barrel-shaped.
allrocketspsll Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 simple buy some graphite at like a lowes or home depot in the key making section small tube,cut the wide end off not the screw cap end,then before you comp the press,firmly push the pump into the tube shake any off when you load the tooling plunge down then lift up quickly then insert a down pops right out
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