Best and most economical Ball Mill Jars? DIY

[TigerTail]

I am thinking something like this.

Because I now have a lot of sheet PVC to work with.

 

 

How is the threaded rod supposed to be glued into the pvc?

[oldguy]

Drilll the holes for the threaded rod 1/32 or 1/64th smaller than the rod.

Then with an acorn nut on the exposed end of the rod, screw it into the hole to the desired depth.

It will self thread. Then unscrew the rod, apply epoxy glue to the threads & screw it back into the hole.

Strong as a young bull.

 

PVC solvent cement also work in place of epoxy glue.

 

I didnt go with this design, as I figured out a better one.

 

For instance

 

 

Recessed type 8 inch

 

 

12 inch

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2011 by oldguy

[Vrizla]

I'm re designing my ball mill it's spinning way too fast, plus I want to try and make it function as a star roller as well. I have the jars that the supplements come in should they go inside PVC or can you use them on their own? Everyone thinking about using paint cans you know you can buy plastic ones without paint in them.

 

Edit; Sorry answered my own question, I have to stop reading this forum from my cell phone, I can't see half the stuff.

 

But I'm still curious as where you get the rubber ends that fit inside PVC? I saw the ones that go over it at home depot

Edited July 10, 2011 by Vrizla

[Vrizla]

I have access to lots of mustard/ protein shake jars. I'm hoping I can get they will fit into 8" PVC pipe for added durability. Has anyone ever made a mill with adjustable rollers so you could use a smaller jar if you just wanted to fluff up a small batch of chlorare or something else to like that where you don't need a giant jar. I just re read this thread from start to finish and looked at other sites for info and got most of the lingo down. I was under the impression that using PVC as a mill jar was not the best idea due to it's ability to easily create static electricity and fragment. I already have my barricade box built and have plenty of sand bags but I still wouldn't want to see how effective all those bags of sand are.

[oldguy]

Suggest you find, acquire & read;

 

BALL MILLING THEORY AND PRACTICE FOR THE AMATEUR PYROTECHNITION

 

By; Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

[Vrizla]

I know I wish I could find it on e-book I'm short on cash right now. I got a good book on producing black powder, I'm fairly confident on my design I just wanted to see if anyone made adjustable roll bars. I'm assuming if you make it right it can take more then one size jug. If I can't get the book cheap I will crawl the web for more info. I'm assuming most experienced members feel PVC is safe? Aren't most of the store bought jugs made of rubber? Still I would rather pay for a good book then waste my money on a half ass machine!

[Mumbles]

I'd think protein shake or other large bulk condiment jars would be too thin to be of much use for ball milling without some sort of reinforcement. I've seen people use them, but I don't think they have a great lifetime.

 

I'm fine with using PVC jars. Once they're coated with BP and all that stuff, they really don't generate static. As for why most of the rock tumblers use rubber, I'm not sure.

[oldguy]

I know I wish I could find it on e-book I'm short on cash right now. I got a good book on producing black powder, I'm fairly confident on my design I just wanted to see if anyone made adjustable roll bars. I'm assuming if you make it right it can take more then one size jug. If I can't get the book cheap I will crawl the web for more info. I'm assuming most experienced members feel PVC is safe? Aren't most of the store bought jugs made of rubber? Still I would rather pay for a good book then waste my money on a half ass machine!

 

 

My mill will adjust to accept 6, 8 or 12 inch diameter jars. Rollers are 38 inch long, so I can run multiple jars at the same time

1 roller is the driver, I drilled holes for the pillow block bearings, so I can move the unpowered roller over to accept bigger or smaller jars.

 

Some folks feel fine about using food container plastic jars. Excepting they have a short lifetime & crack.

If a jar under power ever leaks, you could get a big loud explosive surprise.

Especially so, if you aren't running a TEFC motor.

 

A Harbor Freight 3lb mill is a good starter mill & cheap.

Not much more than twice the price of Lloyds book on ball milling.

Edited July 11, 2011 by oldguy

[dagabu]

I know I wish I could find it on e-book I'm short on cash right now. I got a good book on producing black powder, I'm fairly confident on my design I just wanted to see if anyone made adjustable roll bars. I'm assuming if you make it right it can take more then one size jug. If I can't get the book cheap I will crawl the web for more info. I'm assuming most experienced members feel PVC is safe? Aren't most of the store bought jugs made of rubber? Still I would rather pay for a good book then waste my money on a half ass machine!

 

I dont think that the use of "safe" is the word that we want to use here, we are grinding a volatile chemical combination in an enclosed container. Like Mum said, there is little concern about static with BP in PVC and PVC is by far the most durable material outside of metal and gives more cushion then metal plus it will not spark.

 

The rubber barrels are great for lapidary but only so-so for ball milling and jugs are a bad choice all around due to the seam that is not structural and will split eventually.

 

Pyro is not a poor mans hobby, it requires quality and safe equipment, one little spark can very well be the difference between life and death.

 

-dag

[WSM]

I dont think that the use of "safe" is the word that we want to use here, we are grinding a volatile chemical combination in an enclosed container. Like Mum said, there is little concern about static with BP in PVC and PVC is by far the most durable material outside of metal and gives more cushion then metal plus it will not spark.

The rubber barrels are great for lapidary but only so-so for ball milling and jugs are a bad choice all around due to the seam that is not structural and will split eventually.

Pyro is not a poor mans hobby, it requires quality and safe equipment, one little spark can very well be the difference between life and death.

-dag

 

Well said, Dag.

 

I use the ball-mill to reduce the particle size of raw materials and mix them with a sieve later. Only once did I ball-mill a live composition, as an experiment. Then I used a small rubber barrel with brass media to mill a small quantity of BP. It worked but my circumstances don't allow scaling up AND I am way more comfortable taking my equipments out to the country and running it at the end of a long extension cord and behind a safety barrier.

 

Safety First (I can't afford to learn by hindsight) !

 

WSM

[Vrizla]

I dont think that the use of "safe" is the word that we want to use here, we are grinding a volatile chemical combination in an enclosed container. Like Mum said, there is little concern about static with BP in PVC and PVC is by far the most durable material outside of metal and gives more cushion then metal plus it will not spark.

 

The rubber barrels are great for lapidary but only so-so for ball milling and jugs are a bad choice all around due to the seam that is not structural and will split eventually.

 

Pyro is not a poor mans hobby, it requires quality and safe equipment, one little spark can very well be the difference between life and death.

 

-dag

I didn't mean to imply that it was safe, and I wouldn't compromise safety The cost of the hobby is high I know I just wanted to use the jugs to test it and if I could pay less for the same product it just makes sense . I briefly read Black Powder Manufacturing, Testing and Optimising by Ian von Maltitz I'm going to re read it tomorrow before milling anything. I most likely will purchase the other book as well first.

[dagabu]

The cost of the hobby is high I know I just wanted to use the jugs to test it and if I could pay less for the same product it just makes sense .

 

To reiterate, I think that the use of a jug over a time tested jar is foolhardy. The product is not the same nor is it safe at all. The jug will come apart and it will spill. Follow WSM's advice on ball mill safety and just doing the pre-grinding may be a way to use these jugs but the charcoal will burn (as we can all attest to) violently with much smoke and fire.

 

-dag

[Vrizla]

Yea that's all I really wanted to do to make sure the rollers and such are working properly. I could just load it with lead balls.

[Vrizla]

I'm not able to edit post on my cell, I just want to make it clear that I would never sacrifice sacrifice safety over cost. Dag & WSM you guys have given me lots of good advice and I don't mean to show any disrespect, but this tread is called best and most economical ball mill jars. I have seen people use soda bottles but I'm not going to do it because that's dangerous and stupid. Yes Pyro is expensive but who doesn't want to save money if it can be done safely. My main concern is making a safe jar for BP and to do so as cheap as possible. I think I'm going to have to make a 4" jar for now to save money. If everything is constructed properly it shouldn't take a long run to make good BP. Thank you for all your information and your concern to keep me safe. The last thing our hobby needs are accidents there are way to many idiots out there.

[Vrizla]

Damn this cell phone. I don't have option to edit while on my Droid. Sorry for extra 2 posts. When I was talking about pay less for same product I was talking about e book format not jars.

[dagabu]

Damn this cell phone. I don't have option to edit while on my Droid. Sorry for extra 2 posts. When I was talking about pay less for same product I was talking about e book format not jars.

 

Hey, we are all good, just making sure that if a rank noob read the post they would know that there are safety considerations.

 

-dag

[Vrizla]

Rightly so, YouTube is a horrible inspiration. Dag did you ever make that video of the disk cuter? When you said you use them for rocket tops were you talking about over a header or over bulkhead? Edited July 11, 2011 by Vrizla

[dagabu]

This video?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyLDVzWsz5M

[WSM]

This video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyLDVzWsz5M

 

Hey, NICE!

 

Now where can I find one of those adjustable disk cutters?

 

WSM

[dagabu]

Hey, NICE!

 

Now where can I find one of those adjustable disk cutters?

 

WSM

 

Harbor Freight, there is probably one by your house.

 

LINK

 

Flip the blades around so the flat is toward the center of the disk, pull the drill bit out and center the cross bar and tighten it down. A VERY flat cutting surface is essential to good cuts.

 

-dag

[stckmndn]

For $7 you can't go wrong. They're so cheap you can get one for each disc size. It saves a lot of trouble as they are PITA to adjust. And make sure you really tighten the snot out of the cutters as I had one go flying across the room. Yikes. Wear your safety glasses.

 

And Dag, having no problem cutting discs without center holes now. Thanks. Funny how excited one can get over the little things.

[Vrizla]

Too bad it's in store only, I thought you said you ground the teeth off a drill hole saw then sharpened it.

[dagabu]

Too bad it's in store only, I thought you said you ground the teeth off a drill hole saw then sharpened it.

 

I have several different cutters, that one is the adjustable one, I have half a dozen ones I use in the press to punch disks as well but fractional disks and well as very large disks are cut with this tool. Did you want video of the punch as well?

 

I have even made punches from sockets by turning a sharp lip on the edge and use it in the press to punch small disks for 1" inserts.

 

-dag

[oldguy]

If you can find a compatible size.

Diamond dust tipped tile, glass & marble hole bits are not very expensive in the smaller sizes.

If used on soft materials, they last forever.

You can use a drill press & punch out large quantities of smaller sized disks in short order.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item35b38762ed

 

 

　

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2011 by oldguy

[dagabu]

I have not had all that great experience with the diamond tipped hole saws for some papers, works great on thick Davey board but when punching kraft, you can't be rotating the bit.

 

-dag