Best and most economical Ball Mill Jars? DIY

[dagabu]

I am still brainstorming the design. I am in no ruch. I may do several differing designs.

What is the inefficant part?

The opening could be 6, 8 or 10 inch wide.

No liff bars?

 

No, Mum meant this jar:

 

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/4%20inch%20ball%20mill%20jar.jpg

[Kaokin]

With the inexpensive source of PVC sheeting, This reduces the overall cost of each jar by eliminating costly fittings. I like it becasue its cheap and durable! In your drawn design, It looks like it will afford the powder to get stuck at the lip before the opening. Is there enough room to drill and tap the PVC jar directly and add a seal between?

[oldguy]

A am still not sure.

I may sandwich a piece of

between the end pieces to make them 3 layers thick.

plus a layer on the outside.

 

Accoustiblock is the same sound deadening effect as 1ft of concrete.

Edited May 17, 2011 by oldguy

[Bonny]

check Iamtheskinman channel on youtube. "ball mill container iamtheskinman" To the people that say the health food protien powder jars are good..... I've destroyed lots of them, they are even hpde. peanut butter jars dont seal air, and other jars eventually crack. skin man is the best idea i've seen yet. Minimal spillage, nothing some newspaper can't handle.

 

Yes, peanut butter jars don't seal air, but nothing a strip of tape won't fix. AND, they work just fine...I've used them for years.

I'm sure you've milled tons of powder, but obviously you aren't well informed, promoting, as Mumbles said a Sponnenburgh knock off as a great idea. PVc jars of that type are old news and very common.

[oldguy]

Hot air plastic welders are also nifty for making BM jars.

Take a look.

http://www.harborfreight.com/plastic-welding-kit-with-air-motor-and-temperature-adjustment-96712.html

[dagabu]

Thats a nice one, we used it to put fairings back together after crashing bikes. The filler is really important since the base plastic likes to slump and disfigure when it gets too hot. The filler takes most of the heat and allows for smooth fillets.

 

-dag

[oldguy]

Trying various ways to put a BM jar together.

 

I cut 2 X ¼ thick circles to achieve a ½ inch total end thickness.

 

Then fit both flush tight together recessed inside the jar 1 inch deep.

 

Then realized if I did that on both ends.

 

It would sure make the jar easy to pick up and/or carry.

 

Because it has a wide lip on both ends

 

Nothing protrudes & you can stand the jar flat on either end.

 

I think I will go that route.

 

Now, I just need to ponder out best how to do the wide access port on the other end.

 

 

One other little thing I realized.

 

Folks make a big to-do about dampening the sound BM jars make.

 

Fact is, 80% of the time my mill & jar or jars will be in a blast bunker.

 

Who cares about a little sound inside a blast bunker?

 

I don’t.

 

On top of that.

 

At least if one is using Zirc “M” type milling media.

 

It is easy to tell when the load is about done, from the sound the media makes.

 

With a fresh load, at 1^st you get a slightly rattling tumbling type sound.

 

As the load progress’s, it gets quieter & quieter.

 

After a certain time (depending on what you are milling), the load starts to rattle again.

 

At first just slightly, then more & more pronounced.

 

What’s going on there is the load has stopped milling & is beginning to cake.

 

If you allow the mill to continue running, you end up with the load caked HARD in the jar.

 

　

 

 

[FrankRizzo]

Oldguy,

 

If you attach that circle insert to a larger sheet, then trim the large sheet with a router flush-trim bit, you'll have enough surface area of overlap to use PVC cement to secure the endcap. If you make one for each end, you can maybe make one a little thicker, cut a 4" hole in the center, and use a common 4" pipe plug to seal it.

 

Something similar to this after you're done:

http://pyrobin.com/files/end%20cap.jpg

 

..and maybe this to plug the loading/unload end, w/out the screws because it would be solvent welded:

 

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/img450_2.jpg

Edited May 21, 2011 by FrankRizzo

[Bonny]

What’s going on there is the load has stopped milling & is beginning to cake.

 

If you allow the mill to continue running, you end up with the load caked HARD in the jar.

 

　

 

I disagree with that statement. I've let my mill run for over 24hrs and have never had any issues with hard caking. As long as the media keeps moving and there is no moisture it shouldn't cake up like that.

[Bilbobaker]

So the consensus is in that the Zirc “M” type milling media is the best?

What size do you all use?

[oldguy]

I disagree with that statement. I've let my mill run for over 24hrs and have never had any issues with hard caking. As long as the media keeps moving and there is no moisture it shouldn't cake up like that.

 

Bonny,

 

I’m just a grasshopper compared with your vast experience.

 

But still I would say it depends on what you are milling.

 

A single chemical, multiple chemicals, charcoal alone or standard BP all mill differently.

 

It also depends on the media you are milling it with.

 

Some media like lead, or even antimony hardened lead is relatively soft.

 

Ceramic media or stainless steel or plain steel shot is far harder.

 

It also depends on the type jar you are milling it in.

 

For instance, a hard rubber jar will give differing results than a softer rubber jar.

 

You will also get differing results using a PVC or a ceramic jar.

 

So there are variations, given all those differing factors.

 

At least to me, the results are sort of like a cake mix.

 

With differing recipes, you get differing results.

 

 

[Bonny]

Bonny,

 

I’m just a grasshopper compared with your vast experience.

 

But still I would say it depends on what you are milling.

 

A single chemical, multiple chemicals, charcoal alone or standard BP all mill differently.

 

It also depends on the media you are milling it with.

 

Some media like lead, or even antimony hardened lead is relatively soft.

 

Ceramic media or stainless steel or plain steel shot is far harder.

 

It also depends on the type jar you are milling it in.

 

For instance, a hard rubber jar will give differing results than a softer rubber jar.

 

You will also get differing results using a PVC or a ceramic jar.

 

So there are variations, given all those differing factors.

 

At least to me, the results are sort of like a cake mix.

 

With differing recipes, you get differing results.

 

 

I don't consider myself an expert, just commenting based on my own experiences. I was referring to BP where I haven't really ever had any caking issues. I believe as you said that different media, jars and chems would behave differently. I have had caking on individual chems (nitrates) that I simply blamed on moisture.

[oldguy]

So the consensus is in that the Zirc "M" type milling media is the best?

What size do you all use?

 

I don’t think there is a consensus.

 

All sorts of folks use all sorts of milling media.

 

A lot depends on your budget and/or what media is readily available to you.

 

Myself personally, I swear by Zirconia “M” or “YSZ” type milling media (1/2 inch for most applications).

 

It is very expensive, but can be found on eBay sometimes at reasonable prices.

 

 

[dagabu]

I disagree with that statement. I've let my mill run for over 24hrs and have never had any issues with hard caking. As long as the media keeps moving and there is no moisture it shouldn't cake up like that.

 

If you are milling BP, if it does not cake, your ball mill is not efficient. Its not a matter of "if" it will cake but when. About two years ago, I was at odds with a guy over on Passfire about caking and so I dried my chems so that there was no residual moisture in them and ball milled the BP and it still caked! Lloyd S. even PM'd me and told me the same thing, it will always cake if left to do so. My ball mill now mills BP in two hours and I, like OG, listen for the sound change to know when its done.

 

Temperature is just as important as is moisture, high temps cause caking as well.

 

-dag

[Bonny]

If you are milling BP, if it does not cake, your ball mill is not efficient. Its not a matter of "if" it will cake but when. About two years ago, I was at odds with a guy over on Passfire about caking and so I dried my chems so that there was no residual moisture in them and ball milled the BP and it still caked! Lloyd S. even PM'd me and told me the same thing, it will always cake if left to do so. My ball mill now mills BP in two hours and I, like OG, listen for the sound change to know when its done.

 

Temperature is just as important as is moisture, high temps cause caking as well.

 

-dag

 

I've known for a long time that my mill is not efficient...which is why I give my lift at least 12 hours. Even if it needed 24 hours I would not really care (well maybe I would). I'm not in a rush and have lots of other things to do while the mill works. If you're in a rush, then you need to learn to plan better.

Making good lift in a couple hours would be great, and maybe my mill can do it, but I have so little time (and no place) for testing, that I just stay with what works.

I get small amounts of caking on the edges but that's it. I've run the mill for double the amount of time, and still no caking. Does your mill sit flat/level? Mine is always set on an angle, which might help as material and media is always "working its way" to the bottom. Anyway, I'm just stating that caking has never been an issue for me.

 

Actually, I've been listening to the sound and have noticed the changes with a batch of BP I just made. The sound had become loud again, but still no caking after running several more hours.

My mill is running right now so I'll be checking.

[dagabu]

Actually, I've been listening to the sound and have noticed the changes with a batch of BP I just made. The sound had become loud again, but still no caking after running several more hours.

My mill is running right now so I'll be checking.

 

I will bet that the BP is done then, just when the sound changes is when I find it to be as milled as it is going to be.

 

I am sorry that you can test the stuff, it sure would be nice to have that liberty huh?

 

-dag

[Bonny]

I will bet that the BP is done then, just when the sound changes is when I find it to be as milled as it is going to be.

 

I am sorry that you can test the stuff, it sure would be nice to have that liberty huh?

 

-dag

Yes it would! I used to spend a lot of time at the lake so testing was every weekend. Nowadays, I go my by old notes and info..make the stuff and hope it goes well.

 

Edit:

Anyway, I ran my mill last night for a few hours and then for about 10 hrs today (making willow charcoal lift). There was no big hard chunks, but some obvious caking happening. I guess the batch was done. I only checked on it every few hours, but the sound was louder again when I shut it off.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Bonny

[oldguy]

[Kaokin]

Lol, That is quite the upgrade!!

[oldguy]

[oldguy]

[FrankRizzo]

I really like the new jar design, Oldguy! Instead of using the plastic welder, how about cutting a thin ring of pipe from the same stock that you used for the jar, then slice out an arc of the material so the ring can be squeezed into a smaller diameter to be used as snap ring of sorts? Then, solvent-weld the ring in place with primer and cement. I think that will give a stronger joint than can be had with the welder.

[oldguy]

I’m glad you like it. I put a lot of thought into it. Plus, I may still have a couple improvements to make. Still pondering it all out & have a couple more idea‘s. I just have to try them out.

 

True, a solvent welded snap ring affair would be very strong. But, may be overkill, as solvent welds are very strong by themselves. Plus a hot air weld makes it that much stronger. When I am done I may high pressure test one. I can do pressure or vacuum, just to see how strong they really are. I have the pumps.

 

 

[oldguy]

I did some testing today.

 

A solvent weld is exceptionally strong.

 

When you lay a smooth hot air tack weld on top of the solvent weld joint.

 

Then, add a hot air bead weld on top of that.

 

I assure you the only way it will come apart is with a saw, a heavy sludge hammer or BP

 

EDIT TO ADD:

If you don't have a hot air plastic welder ($100).

 

You can buy a small bundle of 1/8 or 3/16th inch pvc welding rod cheap ($6)

It is pliable enough to bend in a semi-circle.

After making the initial solvent weld.

Apply primer, then solvent weld the rod in a circle over the initial joint.

That is quick, easy & doubles the joint strength.

Edited May 28, 2011 by oldguy

[killforfood]

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-pounds-Zirconia-M-Grinding-Media-1-2-inch-cyl-/160578249901?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256335a4ad

Least expensive source I am aware of.

Retails over $25 a lb, plus shipping.

I was re-reading through this thread and just out of curiousity checked to see what else the grinding media seller had for sale. Well how about a king sized ball mill! That thing is big enough to discipline a mouthy teenager in 55 Gallon Ball Mill.