pillyg Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I found this book a long time ago but it seems like a fake and that its too good to be true. It is http://makechemicals.com/ It shows how to make potassium (per)chlorate and German Al both for around $1.50 a lb.
Ralph Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 price for kno3 seems about right if your purchasing
Mumbles Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 I can guarantee most of that is just copied off the internet. Truth be told, the specialty aluminum powders require special equipment/conditions. The guide may give some vaguely fine flake (make from Al foil I would guess), but even typical 325 mesh would probably put it to shame. Between this website and Science Madness, we are probably one of the best authorities on perchlorate and chlorate production. Tom Peregrin's website is a good start, but the practical advice and experience is invaluable. All it all it's probably a load of BS as others have mentioned. It kind of makes me want to just sell an archive of this site for like $50 and pay my rent and beer money for a while.
shagaKahn Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Love how the ad kept quoting skylighter for prices. Does anyone actually BUY from skylighter anymore--I mean unless he's running his 50% off sale? And Mumz is dead right: that shark got everything in his book just by googling. Like this do-it-yourself for german black. (Keep meaning to try this just for laughs but my ball mills are always busy elsewhere): http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-German-Dark-Aluminum-Powder/ First codicil I'd add would be to use lead or brass balls instead of steal--unless you're really dying to risk sparks in a mass that becomes more explosive by the minute. Got a bunch of ceramic grinding media a while back but quit using it when I realized I was just asking for a piezo effect.
dagabu Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Love how the ad kept quoting skylighter for prices. Does anyone actually BUY from skylighter anymore--I mean unless he's running his 50% off sale? Yes, their sales are in the tens of millions annually. Got a bunch of ceramic grinding media a while back but quit using it when I realized I was just asking for a piezo effect. That is only true of some ceramics, the COORS media is not hazardous and is likely what you purchased.
pillyg Posted March 16, 2011 Author Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah It was fake but I was just wondering your opinion to see if there is anything good at all.
shagaKahn Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 > That is only true of some ceramics, the COORS media is not hazardous and is likely what you purchased. Good to know dagabu--thanx for the hit. Got the ceramic 'cause it was s'posed to be so much better than lead but I really didn't find that to be the case at all. Kinda hijacking the thread so maybe I should search here for a ball mill media discussion . . .
handymanherb Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) I was going to order e-matches from skylighter, but was told I was banned from spending my money with him since I didn't like the fact he just wanted you to spend more for something you could get cheaper at Harbor Freight and not give you the best deal out there. Turns out I have to Thank him and did send him a thank you note, he saved me money big time on both the e-match blanks and KNO4 by not taking my money, so I ordered else where, so I guess he is looking out for his customers Edited March 17, 2011 by handymanherb
WSM Posted March 17, 2011 Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) First codicil I'd add would be to use lead or brass balls instead of steal--unless you're really dying to risk sparks in a mass that becomes more explosive by the minute. Got a bunch of ceramic grinding media a while back but quit using it when I realized I was just asking for a piezo effect. Actually, there's nothing wrong with milling aluminum with clean steel bearings. I wouldn't even consider milling a mix of any kind with steel, but just a soft metal?; sure. If contamination is a concern, try 316 stainless steel as a milling media (non-sparking, non-magnetic and should last a lifetime). I've tried milling shredded aluminum foil and for the most part, it worked. Following the instructions of the technical article (industrial recycling of aluminum foils into aluminum powders), I stopped milling for a few hours every day and allowed air in to passivate the aluminum (allow an oxide layer to form in a controlled fashion so the whole mass wouldn't become pyrophoric). It worked but wasn't more than a proof of concept. I'd rather buy aluminum powders. WSM Edited March 17, 2011 by WSM
alexthegreat00 Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) I've never heard of that. Is it really possible to use stainless steel as a ball mill media? If it is non-sparking, wouldn't it work for any milling, say BP.EDIT: If this is too off topic, lets move it to a new topic. Edited March 19, 2011 by alexthegreat00
dagabu Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 I use 308 SST 5/8" balls in one of my jars. Perfectly safe.
WSM Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 Yes and yes. I have a friend who uses cut sections of 316 stainless rod with lightly rounded edges. It makes hot powder and mills KNO3 like you wouldn't believe. Very effective. If milling aluminum foil to powdered aluminum, large steel bearings work well. I used roughly 3/4" bearings in a small (3lb) rubber barrel, purely to prove the concept. It worked but the article hasn't been published yet. As for other on topic discussions; I have a technique for making potassium hydrogen phthalate whistle fuel if anyone is interested. WSM I've never heard of that. Is it really possible to use stainless steel as a ball mill media? If it is non-sparking, wouldn't it work for any milling, say BP.EDIT: If this is too off topic, lets move it to a new topic.
Bonny Posted March 21, 2011 Posted March 21, 2011 I've never heard of that. Is it really possible to use stainless steel as a ball mill media? If it is non-sparking, wouldn't it work for any milling, say BP.EDIT: If this is too off topic, lets move it to a new topic.The reason stainless media is often avoided is the cost. Lead is cheap and easy to cast for the DIY.I use brass myself.
WSM Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) The reason stainless media is often avoided is the cost. Lead is cheap and easy to cast for the DIY.I use brass myself. The ceramic media is expensive too, but it's a one-time expense since it lasts so long. I see stainless steel the same way, without any worries about contaminating things with lead (which tends to whiten flames). WSM PS - Brass isn't so cheap either, with copper over $4 a pound at present ! Edited March 22, 2011 by WSM
WSM Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 $4.00 a pound for scrap here in the Frozen North. Hi dagabu, Yes, my point exactly (what he said). With the rising price of everything (it's called inflation, folks), brass isn't that much less than stainless steel. Since it will "last a lifetime" why not get the better material? You're already spending x dollars, just spend x+1 dollars and have something universal and longer lasting? My recommendation, if you have a choice, is 316 stainless. the second runner up is 304. The 300 series stainless' are the ones to use (non-sparking, non-magnetic according to the US government, so take a magnet with you as you search the scrapyards) and most will work. I would avoid the 303 stainless though, due to the roughly 1% lead content to make it "free cutting", unless you're turning spindles. Try googling stainless steel alloys to understand their make up and properties. Good hunting! WSM
dagabu Posted March 22, 2011 Posted March 22, 2011 Why avoid 303? The lead isn't a problem when cutting or turning, it does nor leach off into comps. I hate cutting stainless steel, it rips tooling up and has to be cut cold due to its penchant to gall when tooled. That said, if you are going to buy tooling from Firesmith you will get a SST spindle but last time I looked, Wolters were coated aluminum. I second Bonny, I use brass for spindles wherever I can. Rammers are always aluminum, stainless sits on my materials rack and looks pretty...
WSM Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 (edited) Why avoid 303? The lead isn't a problem when cutting or turning, it does nor leach off into comps. I hate cutting stainless steel, it rips tooling up and has to be cut cold due to its penchant to gall when tooled. That said, if you are going to buy tooling from Firesmith you will get a SST spindle but last time I looked, Wolters were coated aluminum. I second Bonny, I use brass for spindles wherever I can. Rammers are always aluminum, stainless sits on my materials rack and looks pretty... All true but lets add that since stainless is harder to turn (do take smaller cuts and be patient with stainless) it lasts longer. Turning 303 is about like turning regular steel. Other stainless alloys can be a real monster . Let a "monster" do your milling . Also, Wolter's spindles may be aluminum, but that coating (Nituf) is harder than anything else we've discussed. In fact, if you want to put tough materials in your rocket mix (iron, ferro titanium, titanium, etc.), the Nituf coated aluminum is the only material that won't be affected by it. I've seen an aluminum rammer jammed hard on one of these spindles and when it was finally apart, the aluminum bit stuck hard on the spindle from the rammer was scraped off with a pocket knife and the spindle was untouched! It sold me. WSM PS - Despite the date, I'm not joking. Edited April 1, 2011 by WSM
dagabu Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I too hate milling SST, I will be staying with brass for my personal spindles and make aluminum ones for others. "PS - Despite the date, I'm not joking." Huh?
pyrokid Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 I too hate milling SST, I will be staying with brass for my personal spindles and make aluminum ones for others. "PS - Despite the date, I'm not joking." Huh? Happy april fools!
dagabu Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Looks like we have a Pioneer Metals Finishing company right here, they just bought out Nimet Ind. that owned the Nituff®, NiCoTef® and Anografics®. I may look into the cost for a small batch of items....
pillyg Posted April 1, 2011 Author Posted April 1, 2011 Funny how make your own chemicals turned into milling media but oh well.
WSM Posted April 1, 2011 Posted April 1, 2011 Funny how make your own chemicals turned into milling media but oh well. I guess it's progressed from making them to handling them. What's next, mixing them ? I like the making your own chemicals idea; self reliance is so satisfying. WSM
pillyg Posted April 2, 2011 Author Posted April 2, 2011 Haha yeah. The only problem is that the chems that are the easiest to make, and are the cheapest you use a tiny bit of, but the ones you need a lot are hard to make or expensive.
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