"Gilsonite", "Asphaltum", "Uintaite"

[oldguy]

Gilsonite (Uintaite) elemental analysis of the batch of 200 mesh Gilsonite poweder I acquired is approximately - 80.8% carbon, 9% hydrogen, 3.2% nitrogen, 2.0% oxygen, and 5.0% silicon, nickel and trace elements. Softening point is 320-360 degrees F. Density is 1.05. BTU's per pound - 16,000 - 18,000. Uses include - waterproof coatings, black varnishes, lacquers, fuel in exothermic reactions, dry toners, baking enamels, printing inks, automotive undercoatings, furniture stains, clay pigeon binder, etching compounds, wire-insulating compounds, linoleum and floor tiles, paving, insulation, and a possible source of gasoline. Gilsonite is soluble in aliphatic, aromatic and chlorinated hydrocarbon solvents. It has limited solubility in most ketones, but is soluble in mixed aromatic solvents that contain a ketone component. Gilsonite is not soluble in water, alcohols, or acetone.

 

My question: Could Gilsonite be used to coat reactive metals to minimize redox possibilities in comp's containing nitrates?

Edited March 1, 2011 by oldguy

[oldguy]

After a lot of searching, I believe I found an answer to my question re; coating reactive metals.

 

In US Pat # 4768439.........."Uintaite, a high grade hydrocarbon, also called asphaltum, has been used in metallic flare compositions as a coating agent for the magnesium or copper powder, as disclosed in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,164,186 and 3,960,087. Uintaite is also known by its trademarked name "GILSONITE." Because the combustion temperature of a metallic flare is so high and the burn intensity so great, uintaite has not before been recognized as a factor in markedly improving flare performance."

 

 

[oldguy]

Well, it seems like no one is coming forward with any easy answers on this question.

Just to be on the safe side, since the flares I am making contain a high % of Mg/Al & will be stored long tern.

 

I want to pre-coat the Mg/Al with something.

 

It seems potassium dichromate is the way to go.

 

But, that stuff is very toxic to work with.

 

So, I am looking for another means.

 

Would ‘Parlon” work? I have lbs of it on hand.

 

If so, how would one go about it?

 

 

[dagabu]

I have treated Mg/Al with parlon in the past with great success in comets stored for more then a year (still in shells). I simply add parlon in a jar of acetone and let it dissolve. I have 1L bottles and I have gotten as high as 20% parlon to ALMOST dissolve. I write the dry weight of the parlon and the wet weight of the acetone down on the bottle and decant it into the Mg/Al until I have 2% by weight, stir and let dry.

 

I am sure there are a bunch of reasons why this is a bad idea but I haven't found a down side to it yet.

 

I do agree with you, I dont like to work with pot ditch either.

[oldguy]

I dissolved some 200 mesh Gilsonite in Naphtha until I had a relatively thin paint like mixture.

 

Then placed 20 grams of mixed 40/60 mesh Mg/Al in a wide mouth beaker.

 

Then added & stirred in enough Gilsonite solution to the beaker to coat the Mg/Al.

 

Then shook out the coated Mg/Al particles as a thin layer on a piece of stiff waxed filter paper.

 

Which is drying now in a dehydrator.

 

Once dried, what is the best way to test if the Gilsonite coating is effective.

 

I recall Mumbles recently posted how to test a reactive metal coating.

 

With vinegar, I think, but am not sure.

 

I searched, but cannot find the post.

 

Any pointers would be appreciated.

 

 

[dagabu]

That is what I was using, I am not sure what Swede was using but you can search for his last post about a year ago regarding his research on the subject.

[oldguy]

Gilsonite solution dried rock hard & did what appears to be a perfect job of coating & passivating the Mg/Al.

 

At least when vinegar was applied with an eyedropper..

 

To test it more, I am soaking a coated gram in vinegar for a few hours.

 

Below is some historical data on Gilsonite

 

Gilsonite in mineral spirits made the "motor slush" that Ford used to quickly and cheaply paint the non-critical parts of the Model T: axels, frames, engines. The coating is jet black, moisture-proof, acid proof, alkali proof and offers a measure of rust protection (passive rust protection). It dries very quickly, and when fully dry, is flinty-hard and easy to sand.

 

 

[oldguy]

Several hour soak & it's fine.

Gilsonite works for me.

 

Plus using a little as a comp binder, I believe it would be safe to store for years.

[dagabu]

Will the glisonite be too great of a barrier against heat?

[oldguy]

Will the glisonite be too great of a barrier against heat?

 

I don't believe so. It's a very thin coating & turned the Mg/Al dark bronze looking.

I will burn some off in an open SS condiment cup & a hand rolled tamped tube to test it.

 

Funny how burn off tests go. No binder & slightly tamped in an open to container, a comp burns one way.

Add a binder to the comp in the same container, let the bound comp set up, dry, then ignite it, it burns off differently.

Then, compress the same comp, with a binder into a tube @ 300 psi, let it dry & it burns a different way.

 

I have a bunch of special order tubes on the way. I cannot wait until they get here. In that I will have to adjust the comp to suit the tube.

In that with a fusee type flare you don't want a chimney effect.

So you adjust the comp to burn off the tube.

Trouble there is when you make the comp hotter, it speeds up the burn rate.

 

LOL, man… if its not one thing, its another.

Edited March 5, 2011 by oldguy

[oldguy]

Just got done testing it.

The Gilsonite coated Mg/Al ignites & burns off just great.

Just eyeballing it, I could tell no differance between coated & uncoated burning off.

If there is a differance, its only a few milliseconds.

[mamajan007]

Gilsonite (Uintaite) elemental analysis of the batch of 200 mesh Gilsonite poweder I acquired is approximately - 80.8% carbon, 9% hydrogen, 3.2% nitrogen, 2.0% oxygen, and 5.0% silicon, nickel and trace elements. Softening point is 320-360 degrees F. Density is 1.05. BTU's per pound - 16,000 - 18,000. Uses include - waterproof coatings, black varnishes, lacquers, fuel in exothermic reactions, dry toners, baking enamels, printing inks, automotive undercoatings, furniture stains, clay pigeon binder, etching compounds, wire-insulating compounds, linoleum and floor tiles, paving, insulation, and a possible source of gasoline. Gilsonite is soluble in aliphatic, aromatic and chlorinated hydrocarbon solvents. It has limited solubility in most ketones, but is soluble in mixed aromatic solvents that contain a ketone component. Gilsonite is not soluble in water, alcohols, or acetone.

 

My question: Could Gilsonite be used to coat reactive metals to minimize redox possibilities in comp's containing nitrates?

We have a Gilsonite or Asphaltum , Natural asphalt

treatment or refinery project to remove its ash.So

we need some related information about how to remove

Gilsonite ash.

We appreciated you if you kindy guide us.

 

With best wishes

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Isn't it a mineral that is mined and ground up? Why does it have ash in it?

 

How about using water to seperate the ash out, and let the heavy gilsonite fall to the bottom?

 

However, this is a pyrotechnic website, not an industrial engineering site. Not sure you will get a lot of help.

[mamajan007]

Dear FlaMtnBkr

 

This mine is in Iran so our Gilsonite usually has some Ashes. Could you kindly help us to find some more information?

[FlaMtnBkr]

Afraid I won't be of much more help. First, I would need to see the product and what you are dealing with. But I will only have very basic suggestions. Like dumping in a bucket so the ashes dissolve and pouring off the liquid.

 

Are you a company? How much gilsonite are you trying to process? Are you also located in Iran? Don't think we have ever had a member from there. It almost sounds like you need an engineer. Not someone that uses chemicals to make fireworks in the sky.

 

Please answer all my questions. Thanks.

[schroedinger]

You could just recrystallize from benzen or turpentine combined with a hot filtration

[mamajan007]

Iran gilsonite always have sold cheap as raw material because of its ash.So we are going to remove its ash and produce

related products.We are company and welcome anybody who has technology information for refine our gilsonite (as a partner).

Our gilsonite is huge like ocean!!!

 

Iran Gilsonite, in comparison to the majority of the world’s Natural Bitumen suppliers, is a safe, friendly, reliable, experienced and affordable source for Natural Asphalt from Iran. In fact, through our independent assessments, when comparing Iran Gilsonite to the limited countries supplying Natural Bitumen, Iran’s Gilsonite, is many folds less in cost. Iran origin Gilsonite, was considered for export via Iran over a decade ago, and we have witnessed and participated in its formation into a fruitful exportable commodity from Iran via Bandar Abbas port to China’s and India’ market since its beginnings. Some Natural Bitumen importers regard Iran origin Gilsonite as Asia Gilsonite; The vigorous hard work of a select few in Iran to generate International recognition for this commodity has shaped a gracious foundation and commendable representation of this commodity into the world market. Today, the export of these goods via reliable Gilsonite Exporters gives us great pride, as it has accelerated the growth of the local economy in the immediacy of where Iran Gilsonite is regularly mined. Iran Gilsonite, in Association with its own Forwarding Shipping Company within its Holding, which is consequently affiliated with the most reputable shipping lines in the world, handles every aspect of exporting these goods via Iran’s Bandar Abbas port.

 

Physical Properties of Iran Gilsonite

Ash Content ( WT % )

1 – 20

Moisture Content ( WT % )

0.5 – 1.5

Volatile Matter ( WT % )

60 – 65

Fixed Carbon

25 – 35

Solubility In CS2 ( WT % )

85 – 90

Solubility In TCE ( WT % )

60 – 70

Normal Heptan Insol ( WT %)

60 – 70

Specific Gravity 25 C

1.1 – 1.2

Colour

Black

Softening Point C

190 – 250

Penetaration 25 C / 0. Tmm

0 – 2

Carbon

75 – 82

Hydrogen

6 – 9

Nitrogen

0.8 – 1.5

Sulphur

3 – 6

Oxygen

1.5 – 2.5

 

Are you interest to join us or do you know somebody could help us?Thanks

[hindsight]

Thank you for the prospectus and well-worded advertisement. Is this the marketing section or did I get lost? I know someone asked for it, but their intent was probably not what resulted.

[mamajan007]

Frankly our propuse is not marketing because gilsonite sellers have their own web sits and offices in all around the world.

Indeed, we need scientific help and support.We are not gilsonite seller.We have a project to reduce ashes.So we ask all

to join us and help us.

[schroedinger]

Guy maybe get a proper chemist and work out a way how you could manage it in your area.

Maybe have a look at the soxleth extractor and build one of them in big and in a way that you can operate 'em continus, it's not that hard to design. Instead of extraction sleeves use a very fine wire mesh.

This would be a pretty simple set up, and as you are in Iran you should be able to heat the ressevoir with thermal energy from sun collectors.

 

You're not the first company that's refining asphaltum, so maybe have a look at the other companies technics,

[mamajan007]

Dear Schroedinger

We collected and read books from 1900 but we could not find exact knowledge about removing ashes from

gilsonite!! If you could act as our consular to guide us to access to technology for refining asphaltum you could

have some share in company (awards).Realy we could not find information and related material or ash reduce

methods.

[Peret]

When you say "ash content", what you really mean is insoluble mineral content, like sand? Ash is a bit misleading. To me at least, "ash" means the leftover residue when you burn coal, wood, paper or any other flammable material. If the deposit is in a volcanic area the impurity may be called "volcanic ash", but really it's just finely divided mineral, mostly silicates.

 

Your deposit is probably similar to the "tar sands" deposits in Colorado and Canada, though perhaps much richer, and you would extract it the same way. I believe they steam-heat the sands and collect the organic content that runs out as liquid. It's a very filthy process.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Bam...

 

That will be two million US dollars, please.

 

Thanks!

[mamajan007]

Dear Peret and FlaMtnBkr

This is 10 million US dollars project so if you could remove ash from gilsonite you win 10 million $.I am inviting you to share.

But please read the following information first:

How remove ashes from gilsonite

Be it known that 1, CHARLES N. FORREST, a citizen of the United States, and a resident of Rahway, in the county of Union and State of New Jersey, have invented certain new and useful Improvements in Processes of Treating Gilsonite, whereof the following is a specification.

My invention relates to Gilsonite products iid their manufacture, and its object is the ap-reduction from gilsonite of various fiseful substances in a commercially practicable and economical way. The novelty of my invention resides not only in my processes and methods of manufacture, but extends, also, to some of the substances obtained, which are in themselves new.

My present application, it will be understood, is in part a continuation of my application, Serial No. 195,721. filed October 10, 1917, under the title Liquid hydrocarbon.
Gilsonite is a natural solid bitumen, of well known physical properties, including a peculiar, characteristic co nchoidal fracture, found principally in certain sections of Utah. As compared with other natural bitumen in their native state, it is remarkable for its very high degree of purity.

Its specific gravity at 7 7 F. varies over a range of, approximately, 1.040 to 1.056. It has been used as an ingredient in paints and varnishes; in paving, waterproofing, and roofing ‘compo-unds;-’ and in rubber manufactures.
Of the chemical nature or possibilities of ilsonite, practically nothing is a known. Scientific investigations heretofore attempted have been perfunctory, abortive, and inconclusive; and exploitation commercially has not even been attempted.

The vague state of the world’s informas I I 1 3 tion regarding gilsonite prior to my invention is well illustrated in a paper by Day entitled Investigation of Utah gilsonite, a variety of asphalt read June 18, 1895, before the chemical se tion of the Franklin Institute (Journal 0 the Franklin Institute, Vol. 140, pp.

Ql23,7, September, 1895). Vhilc PENNSYLVANIA, A CORPORATION OF WEST PROCESS OF TREATING GILSONITE.
9,1919; Serial No. 318,588.

others are such as naturally to discourage all expectation of useful products from gilsonite.
Days work avowedly failed of attaining the definite information that he sought regarding the nature of gilsonite; and his own tentative conclusions go very little further than that distillation of gilsonite is unpromising, and that future work on the substance should be along the lines of direct treatment with reagents such as nitric and sulphuric acids, according to a method outlined as a result of his investigation.

While the indefiniteness of his descriptions makes any attempt to repeat or reproduce his work quite futile, such data and results as he does report, nevertheless, show very clearly that he could not really have been working with true Gilsonite at all,-except,- perhaps, in admixture with dominant amounts of other substances.

 

Could you reduce Ash from Gilsonite?I am looking forward to hear from you.