Dextrine bound Dragoneggs

[dagabu]

who has tried the ping pong ball trick, dissolve two balls in 70ml acetone for thin, two and a half balls in 50ml for thick i use the thick in my de's and they are loud, only they smoulder too long to be used for anything.

 

dag i have some 1cm de's if you could suggest a use or test i would be happy to lose them in the name of research for ya.

 

dan.

 

Light one on the ground please, I really want to see what they do!

 

-dag

[dan999ification]

Light one on the ground please, I really want to see what they do!

 

-dag

then i will tomorrow ive been meaning to update my video i have one filmed at night to upload and one in the day when the wind was high not great sound quality its on my channel it was only 5x5x2mm though.

i wanted to make some bigger ones after seeing usa pyro's red gum based ones, i feel a compilation coming on.

 

 

they are inconsistant, mostly they just report but some give a spread [20-30ft dia] of crackling sparks, the trouble i see is that they report before the whole mass is smouldering and some pieces are sent flying unlit [rolling would solve it along with a very hot fast smouldering prime but this was left for more research before i retry, i was going to dissolve them and start again,but they are primed.

 

a question/s on the dextrin binding of de's to anyone who can help or may know, could water cause ignition of any de comps? i was going to try binding with it but played safe and used nc laquer.

 

dan.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

I´ve also wondered if dextrin can be used as a binder for dragons eggs or not. It can, but the reason why NC is preffered is found in Lancaster:

 

The stars are made into small grains of 0-4mm and probably are

best made with nitrocellulose dissolved in an organic solvent such as

amyl acetate or acetone. The Chinese may well use a phenolic resin.

Dextrine can also be used but this would be a snag if the stars were

to be incorporated into the mixes of other stars which are bound with

a water-based adhesive.

(p.209)

[Potassiumchlorate]

Microstars are great as cores. They are easy to roll, and the star ends with a small explosion.

[ExplosiveCoek]

Some more information about how you're making them would be nice. I tried pushing the wetted comp through a sieve, worked like crap. Cutting them isn't the way to go either, it consumes way to much time.

 

So any advice about making dragon egg's is welcome.

[Potassiumchlorate]

From what I've heard they use a special frame for microstars. Don't know where to buy one, though.

[ExplosiveCoek]

Ah, so you just use commercial cores? That's too bad.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Oh, I don't think it's that much "cheating" using commercial microstars for cores, though I'd like to make some myself, but I don't have a frame like that.

 

I think the simplest one is:

 

lead tetroxide 89

magnalium 11

 

+NC lacquer as a binder.

 

Poisonous but cheap.

[dan999ification]

depending on how you want to go about it the easiest way is to make a thin pattie and break it up in the pestle and mortar [taking safety precautions] then screen the sizes you need for cores i prime the pattie before it dries, cutting them isnt too much trouble to me plus you get uniform sizes for small batches [50g will make tens of hundreds for cores] it is worth it they go a long way, you need a sharp thin long clean knife

pushing through the sieve has worked out for some but im not trying it the eggs are like mouse turds and wont make good cores but still work as they should.

 

dan.

 

 

[dan999ification]

can you put one of the commercial eggs into water for a while and see if it dissolves plus squash one and look what colour it is inside, hopefully this should reveal the comp used and the binder?

 

dan.

[ExplosiveCoek]

What kind of frame do you mean then?

 

Well actually I think it is, plus they're much more expensive then making your own. We're here on a do it yourself forum, not buy and adjust.

I just would like to see a way to make them for once in the amateur world.

Nobody really knows how to do it, and the ones who do know keep their mouthes shut. It's quite sad actually .

 

I'm not trying to pick on you, but I can't do much with think. A lot of people think, but never try the things they mention.

 

I'll go and give them a try again this weekend, if I'm more successful this time I'll let you guys now. Without NC lacquer, it's crappy to work with.

 

Edit: Dan, it's quite troublesome to cut stars with the size of 1mm. They shouldn't be any larger then that actually. What I tried with the mouse turds, just dump them in the roller when you're pushing them through your screen. Put some dry comp in your roller or they'll stick together immediately.

One of the positive effects of not using NC: you'll have more time to roll them round .

Edited October 25, 2011 by ExplosiveCoek

[Potassiumchlorate]

can you put one of the commercial eggs into water for a while and see if it dissolves plus squash one and look what colour it is inside, hopefully this should reveal the comp used and the binder?

 

dan.

 

Done. It seems to be one black layer of prime, which dissolves in water, and one grayish core, that doesn't dissolve in water.

 

I have noticed that the microstars, or at least the prime, is destroyed if kept for more than one year inside a star bound with water/dextrin.

[dan999ification]

 

Edit: Dan, it's quite troublesome to cut stars with the size of 1mm. They shouldn't be any larger then that actually. What I tried with the mouse turds, just dump them in the roller when you're pushing them through your screen. Put some dry comp in your roller or they'll stick together immediately.

One of the positive effects of not using NC: you'll have more time to roll them round .

 

i have cut them that small but then i have been a butcher for over a decade, you may find smashing the pattie easier.

the mouse turds work just fine if not better i think the porous/looser structure helps with the multiple crackles

 

dan.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I guess from pics on Pyroguide that the grayish core is bismuth trioxide or subcarbonate based. The black is probably something with potassium perchlorate and silicon in it. Edited October 25, 2011 by Potassiumchlorate

[ExplosiveCoek]

Ahh, that's cheating ! I'm going to try to push some compo through the sieve again and see how it turns out. Last time I used SGRS as an binder to prevent getting wet cores after rolling new layers on them, but that made them quite sticky and hard to push through the screen.

 

I think I'm going to try phenolic resin this time (and lead instead of bismuth) for the egg's, then I can just rol some dex based Ti-prime on top of them. Just like what Potassiumchlorate mentions.

[Potassiumchlorate]

You should make your own niter-bed and get yourself your own sulfur-mine.

 

Then you would really be making things form scratch. Buying potassium nitrate and sulfur is cheating.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Potassiumchlorate

[ExplosiveCoek]

Sorry for the late reply, I just came back from my routine check out of the sulfur volcano. You were saying?

 

Hehe, just kidding. I do buy all my chemicals, but the commercial DE are just crappy too in my opinion.

Buying chemicals makes me sure of the same quality everytime, plus for the price I pay.. I really can't make it myself anymore.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Some more information about how you're making them would be nice. I tried pushing the wetted comp through a sieve, worked like crap. Cutting them isn't the way to go either, it consumes way to much time.

 

So any advice about making dragon egg's is welcome.

 

 

depending on how you want to go about it the easiest way is to make a thin pattie and break it up in the pestle and mortar [taking safety precautions] then screen the sizes you need

 

 

 

I second that. This is the way I make mine. Fine powder can be recycled by reconsolidating.

 

Maybe the Pyroguide page I once made does help:

http://www.pyroguide...ing_Micro-stars

[ExplosiveCoek]

Thanks for the advice, but i'm not gonna crush some sensitive flash like mixture up with a mortar & pestle..

[fredhappy]

Thanks for the advice, but i'm not gonna crush some sensitive flash like mixture up with a mortar & pestle..

 

I second that, please treat all dragon egg formulaes in the same manner as you would do with flash.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

mixed with a 10% solution of nitrocellulose in acetone or amyl acetate to form a dough, and made into small cut stars, then broken apart.

 

From Hardt. I didn´t come up with the method.

 

 

Thanks for the advice, but i'm not gonna crush some sensitive flash like mixture up with a mortar & pestle..

 

I second that, please treat all dragon egg formulaes in the same manner as you would do with flash.

 

I´m willing to stand corrected and work more safely in the future, but in which aspect do egg comps resemble flash? I know friction and shock sensitivity are both high, but even in case of ignition they will behave very differently compared to flash, won´t they? May be wrong on that one...

[Mumbles]

I've never tried to burn the powder itself, so I can't speak to that. However, striking one can very easily set them off. On a basic level dragon eggs are just a specialized form of a thermite type reaction, which can be fairly violent, especially when stoichiometric.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I smashed one with a wooden spoon, when we were discussing the composition, though I didn't do it with any of it's "siblings" nearby, of course.

[dan999ification]

I've never tried to burn the powder itself, so I can't speak to that. However, striking one can very easily set them off. On a basic level dragon eggs are just a specialized form of a thermite type reaction, which can be fairly violent, especially when stoichiometric.

 

i use a low bismuth formula though i have tried a few different comps

i have lit the powder and hit the eggs with a hammer the ones i make wont go off, the powder however is very scary really it acts like a copper thermite which is basically a flash of sorts, only it isnt easy to ignite, the pile of loose powder will smolder like an egg until......poof. lots of brown copper gas from my comp

i placed a piece of blackmatch under about 3 grams of comp the match burned the comp didnt just when i was contemplating trying again ..............you get the idea.

if you make a pattie 1mm thick it really does not take you beating the hell out of it to reduce it to the size you need, plus you should take safety precautions, work with minimal material at one time.

it is a dangerous comp that i think can detonate but it is not very brissant unconfined causing little or no damage shock wise but it leaves scary scary burns behind.

 

dan.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I have tried small amounts of flash with an anvil and a hammer. You have to hit pretty hard to make it explode, at least KP flash. The greatest risk of all is probably static electricity.

 

The egg I crushed was put on a piece of wood and then crushed with a wooden spoon. To make anything explode by friction or impact between two pieces of wood, I think you'll have to use Armstrong's or someting even more instable or hit incredibly hard.

 

That said, you should of course always be careful.