Dextrine bound Dragoneggs

[mabuse00]

Is this feasible/recommendable?

 

I've got the chems ready for some time, but i never found time to try and I couldnt get pure NC laquer.

 

Yesterday I tested my improvised star roller, little bucket + power drill and I'm making my first rolling experiences at the moment.

Ricing lead dragoneggs with dextrine and using them as cores should be possible?

 

Or just roll some BP on them and fill them loosely in a rocket header, together with H3 break?

 

Can I get away without messing with NC?

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Yes that should be possible, a friend of my sowed me his dragon eggs 2 weeks ago, rolled with dextrin and the comp has to be mixed up very well. Rolled cracking stars are more compact, which works better for dragon eggs. They were very loud, just one big pop.

[mabuse00]

Do you know what size of magnalium he used?

 

 

I only have 45µm, what seems to be to fine, at least thats what I read thus far.

 

If I try to get new stuff, what size should I get? 63µm seems to be the most common size, but I might also get 200µm.

[Bonny]

Do you know what size of magnalium he used?

 

 

I only have 45µm, what seems to be to fine, at least thats what I read thus far.

 

If I try to get new stuff, what size should I get? 63µm seems to be the most common size, but I might also get 200µm.

 

 

IMO 63 micron is still too fine. I usually used 100 mesh (149 micron) MgAl. I have used 60 mesh (250 micron) but I found they took too long to pop. 200 mesh works fine too, but they might pop not as loudly) multiple times.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

He used 0-63 microns, so 45 should work.

I'm using 0-63 micron myself with good results, bounded with resin.

[ExplosiveCoek]

What kind of compositions were used for the DE? I'm planning on rolling some of them quite soon .

[mabuse00]

I'd like to know that too.

 

Which composition works better, plain lead oxide/magnalium, or the Lead-Copper Version?

[FirstCause]

I'd like to know that too.

 

Which composition works better, plain lead oxide/magnalium, or the Lead-Copper Version?

 

The loudest DE I have ever made uses bismuth subcarbonate 75%,magnalium {100 mesh}15%, and copper oxide II 10%.

I found that the way to get them to give a really ear-ringing single pop was to make a VERY thick lacquer using double base smokeless gunpowder and acetone as the binder. Using such a thick lacquer makes the DE VERY compact and hard, allowing for that loud "single," pop. They come out so loud that one afternoon,while I was experimenting with a batch that had just dried, a police officer came to my home telling me someone had reported a "gunshot," in the vicinity of my home.

[dagabu]

The loudest DE I have ever made uses bismuth subcarbonate 75%,magnalium {100 mesh}15%, and copper oxide II 10%.

I found that the way to get them to give a really ear-ringing single pop was to make a VERY thick lacquer using double base smokeless gunpowder and acetone as the binder. Using such a thick lacquer makes the DE VERY compact and hard, allowing for that loud "single," pop. They come out so loud that one afternoon,while I was experimenting with a batch that had just dried, a police officer came to my home telling me someone had reported a "gunshot," in the vicinity of my home.

 

Yup, right from Skylighters Newsletter #62 LINK

 

-dag

[FirstCause]

Yup, right from Skylighters Newsletter #62 LINK

 

-dag

 

 

No, the link..>→ {Skylighter Newsletter #62 Link←} had no influence upon the method I use for making extremely loud, "single pop," DE.

The 75-15-10 dry composition I use was obtained from "pyro-guide." The #62 Link you showed me was the first time I had ever read it and there are a number of nameable variations deviating from my method. eg:

 

 

That link suggests using 200 mesh magnalium. Through experimenting with various mesh sizes, I never use that size mesh; I found that 100 mesh size makes for the loudest single "pops." Your link also suggests using "Skylighter" nitrocellulose lacquer thinned out to 8%. That % is WAY too thin to get the results I desire.

Anyway,I do not use commercial nitrocellulose lacquer.

Instead, I use Alliant's Red or Green Dot double base powder as a solute and acetone as a solvent. I mix it in batches of ≈16g solute/500ml solvent, creating a solution resembling thick molasses. That newsletter also mentions the DE "breaking apart." My aim is for that not to happen but rather pop in a single burst. The thick solution infuses itself when added to the dry ingredients. This causes for two beneficial things to happen:

The DE have a high content of nitrocellulose. For reasons that are not clear to me, the more nitrocellulose infused in DE the better they preform. I often read of people having difficulty to form DE to their liking. My thinking regarding that is they have not enough nitrocellulose in their mixture. {yes, I am aware there is also a content of nitroglycerin, which seems to either have no, or some possibly beneficial effect upon the performance of the DE } The second benefit is that the dry ingredients become more closely concentrated allowing for that very loud "single pop," and rarely break apart into other smaller "pops." It is important to keep close watch as your batch dries. The acetone evaporates quickly and if you are not paying attention, your batch will dry into a very hard brick. Be sure you do whatever your intent for using these DE is done before it dries into that state. If you wish to use them in a very loud crackling fountain you can cut them as large as 1cm²→Just make sure your nozzle is large enough.

[dagabu]

Do you have any video of the 1cm ones? That would be very cool to see.

 

-dag

[FirstCause]

Do you have any video of the 1cm ones? That would be very cool to see.

 

-dag

 

 

No,I don't have the equipment to be able to do so. But, as I posted formerly, through lots of experimentation, and just a real love of them, I have become really good at making these things. one day I had just mixed up a full batch;then,while the mix was still soft enough to work with I cut them into various sizes up to 1 cm ². I then let them dry fully. {any powder I saved to "recycle"} To test them I took one of the larger pieces→at least 1cm², maybe larger. I placed it in the centre of a kitchen napkin,wrapped it up,and lit the ends of the napkin. When the flame reached the DE•◘→ KABOOM! Lol, yep, it was a good batch! I came back into my home to clean up and my doorbell rang. Outside I saw a police car. I opened the door to see 2 policemen. They questioned me regarding a report someone had

made claiming they heard a gunshot that sounded as coming from my backyard. Now,I had to do some fast talking. I told them "yes," I hard a loud bang but assured them that I, as a gun owner, could tell the bang was surely not a gunshot but most likely from some kids playing with fireworks in the field by my home. They still kept on with questions as: Am I the only one home? And, if they could come inside to make sure all was well. Now, I surely did not want that! I told them there was no need for them to enter my home to make sure "all was well." And, well, they looked at me and must have decided I looked as neither a murderer or terrorist and left my door, snooped around my backyard, then left. I have never had anyone before bother me with my fireworks hobby. I live in what would be called a "resort" area so it must have been someone who was renting a home for their vacation who made the report. And, well, these DE, especially the larger ones DO sound as a gunshot. The reason I would imagine they are so loud is because they are so "compressed," I press down upon the still damp mixture and the thick lacquer further, by hardening them, concentrates the ingredients and they are loaded with nitrocellulose. I have found that making my own nitrocellulose lacquer is way cheaper and preforms better than the commercial ones. 500 grams of Red Dot smokeless powder is enough to make litres and litres of lacquer. I can purchase 500 grams of it in a gun shop for under $20. A nice feature of making your own is that you can adjust the viscosity of the lacquer depending upon your needs. But, it has been my experience that not only DE preform better by using a more concentrated lacquer, but the same holds true for strobe compositions.

Now?...if only I could get my lift powder to preform better. Any suggestions? Here is what I do→> I use the tradition percentages..75-15-10 and a small % of red gum. I use airfloat charcoal,high quality sulphur,and "pyro"-grade potassium nitrate. I measure out the proper amounts, put them all in a ball mill,I have the ball mill far from any structure or home. {even have it protected with sandbags}...as a statement I made here,"The best trick the devil ever made was to make people he doesn't exist." Always be on the look-out for danger! {§ô¿ô§}

I ball mill the mix for at least 24 hours. Carefully open the ball mill up a little at a time -as a precaution to spontaneous combustion. I then add cold alcohol to the mix till it becomes a very thick paste. I allow that o dry in the sun until its texture is workable for me to rice it. When finished it looks perfect and when I test it-> seems to burn really fast. Then when I make an attempt to use it to lift..well, lift anything! The stuff just always seems to have no "kick." Anything done wrong? As it is now, I gave up upon aerial displays. My attention is focused upon gerbs-fountains. Oh!...I do make some very outstanding gerbs/fountains. Lol should I wish to add the bismuth oxycarbonate DE they are really ""crackling!" I also have come up with methods to create unusual effects as sudden bursts of very high sparks that then crackle as they cascade downwards. ..a number of unconventional effects. But regarding BP? I refuse to pay the cost of the commercial ones; so, I make BP to use in my ground display. Maybe some day I will invest in video recording equipment; as of now though, I really haven't much need for it.

[mike_au]

using double base smokeless gunpowder

 

Wouldn't single base be better? Double base is a mix of NC, NG and stabilisers, single is just NC and stabilisers .

[dagabu]

I can purchase 500 grams of it in a gun shop for under $20.

 

Must not be in the states, it runs about $25.00 a pound here.

 

Now?...if only I could get my lift powder to preform better. Any suggestions? Here is what I do→> I use the tradition percentages..75-15-10 and a small % of red gum. I use airfloat charcoal,high quality sulphur,and "pyro"-grade potassium nitrate.

 

Not sure what "pyro grade nitrate" is, even stump remover works well.

I ball mill the mix for at least 24 hours.

 

Sounds like you need a better jar and grinding media. We are achieving well milled powder in an hour using Zirc-M media and PVC jars.

 

I then add cold alcohol to the mix till it becomes a very thick paste. I allow that o dry in the sun until its texture is workable for me to rice it.

 

Why? Just add a little water, just enough so that if you pat a ball of it in your hand, that it shines from the water but not so much that it sticks to you.

 

The stuff just always seems to have no "kick." Anything done wrong?

 

Change your charcoal, use something more reactive, white pine, red cedar, willow or whatever others recommend. Sounds like charcoal briquettes to me.

 

Maybe some day I will invest in video recording equipment; as of now though, I really haven't much need for it.

 

All cell phones I have seen made for the last few years have video, even poor video tells a better story then the written word.

Edited September 5, 2011 by dagabu

[FirstCause]

Wouldn't single base be better? Double base is a mix of NC, NG and stabilisers, single is just NC and stabilisers .

 

 

I am not sure it would. I think the viscosity is what counts. You want the DE ingredients to be as concentrated as possible. I have used nitrated cotton {nitrocellulose} + acetone to my desired thickness and I noticed no difference.

But, nitrating cotton is not a really safe thing to do, and it scares me even though I take all precautions. Gun cotton is not readily available from pyro-vendors on the internet. The only vendor I have come upon that sells it is a vender named "Passfire." However, I am suspicious of making a purchase from them. They require too much information for my liking before they allow you to make a purchase. Yes, I know of vendors selling the "premixed," lacquer, but it is too pricey The NG seems to have either no effect or ..who knows?..maybe adds an extra "kick," to the DE. Besides, buying double base powder is very easy, and quite inexpensive.{ a 500 gram bottle costs around 20 US dollars and makes litres and litres of lacquer Also?→ I have not seen any smokeless gunpowder that is single base being sold in any of the gun shops I have been to. I tend to think it is no longer being made. Have you ever seen single base powder being sold?

☮

[FirstCause]

Thank you for your advice. Here is a picture of my ball mill. It has a 3 pound capacity and uses alumina grinding balls to mill the ingredients.

Lol, NO, I don't grind up charcoal briquettes, silly! I use airfloat charcoal I buy from Hobby Chemicals. {they seem to have the best prices}

I use alcohol because it dries faster and red gum is soluble in it.

 

Hmm ...You just gave me a thought. Could it be that I should perhaps not use red gum or ANY binder in my making process? Maybe the binder decreases the lift power?

And, an old timer once told me that distilled water is vital. He told me that the water "activates," the ingredients. He also told me that the faster the powder dries the stronger will be the lift. Maybe he is right?

 

The method I am using was one I read about from Harry Gilliam[sp?] from "Skylighter Pyro."

Thanx again!

 

↓My ballmill.↓

Mhttp://scienceforyou.net/images/thumbnails/0/120/thumbnail_icon-23415218.jpg☮

 

 

 

 

[dagabu]

Hmm ...You just gave me a thought. Could it be that I should perhaps not use red gum or ANY binder in my making process? Maybe the binder decreases the lift power?

And, an old timer once told me that distilled water is vital. He told me that the water "activates," the ingredients. He also told me that the faster the powder dries the stronger will be the lift. Maybe he is right?

 

No, Anyka, it does not have to be distilled, tap water will work the same to activate the dextrine as distilled.

 

-dag

[FirstCause]

No, Anyka, it does not have to be distilled, tap water will work the same to activate the dextrin as distilled.

 

-dag

 

 

So, a binder should be used in the BP process? And, you recommend dextrin?

 

Anyka? A very unusual name, but pretty. Your wife or girl-friend?

 

☮

[dagabu]

So, a binder should be used in the BP process? And, you recommend dextrin?

 

Anyka? A very unusual name, but pretty. Your wife or girl-friend?

 

☮

 

Naw, he was a bourgeois lad that I once knew. He spun wild tails and posted cataloged pictures of a beautiful young woman that he was pretending to be.

-dag

[mike_au]

Besides, buying double base powder is very easy, and quite inexpensive.{ a 500 gram bottle costs around 20 US dollars and makes litres and litres of lacquer Also?→ I have not seen any smokeless gunpowder that is single base being sold in any of the gun shops I have been to. I tend to think it is no longer being made. Have you ever seen single base powder being sold?

 

I'm just not sure I trust a double base powder, I don't have any experience with NG but I have heard that it can be harder to work with than NC and I would be concerned that by dissolving the powder you run the risk of the NG separating from the NC and/or the stabilisers.

 

I bought a jar of single base powder about 9 months ago from my local gun shop. From the "ADI Handloader's Guide, 2010 edition":

 

 

The shotgun powders are disc powders, double base in composition, covering a wide

range of applications in 12, 20 and 28 gauge loads. All the shotgun powders are

exceptionally clean burning.

 

ADI handgun powders are smaller diameter disc powders manufactured for uniform

metering through powder loaders. The faster burning powders are double base in

composition for increased energy. The slower burning powders are single base for use

in heavy loads. All the handgun powders are exceptionally clean burning when loaded

correctly.

 

The rifle powders are single perforated tubular propellants of single base composition.

 

 

So, in Australia at least, it is easy enough to get single base stuff, I wouldn't have thought composition would vary much between countries. Maybe ask your local gun shop what they have in a slow burning rifle powder and check the manufacturers spec. The powder I bought didn't specify that it was single base on the container, and the first guy I talked to didn't even know what it meant, they had to get one of the senior people to dig out the documentation to confirm that it was actually single base.

[Mumbles]

The member "rank" is rather subdued, but the person you're replying to was banned a few days ago. He/she is a troll that has been bothering our website on and off over the last year or so. Don't take anything they said too seriously as it was probably total BS.

 

That said both single and double based powders can be made to work in dragon eggs. A well known manufacturer in the US uses double base for instance in his dragon eggs. I personally would prefer to avoid the NG in them though.

[mike_au]

Aah, didn't notice the "Group: banned" bit. Fair enough.

 

I'll just continue quietly using my single base powder...

[Algenco]

the double based "might" result in a problem if allowed to set for long periods , the NG "might" settle out Edited September 8, 2011 by Algenco

[californiapyro]

well done mumbles! weedin' out the trolls

[dan999ification]

well done mumbles! weedin' out the trolls

 

 

who has tried the ping pong ball trick, dissolve two balls in 70ml acetone for thin, two and a half balls in 50ml for thick i use the thick in my de's and they are loud, only they smoulder too long to be used for anything.

 

dag i have some 1cm de's if you could suggest a use or test i would be happy to lose them in the name of research for ya.

 

dan.