XenoN Posted August 29, 2006 Posted August 29, 2006 I know this is actually a thermite, but i have heard it makes a great cheap flash powder. I never tried it though. When thinking about it couldn't it be dangerous since small balls of copper would be throw from the device? Also anybody have any experience have any experience with zinc/sulfur flash powder? I am longing to find flash powders that do not require your "common" oxidizers.
shadopyro Posted August 29, 2006 Posted August 29, 2006 Constant talk of flash powders on this forum this not particularly appreciated im afraid. As far as i know there is already section devoted to flash powders, please search the forum before posting in future.There are also many many sources for flash powder compositions all over the internet. The copper oxide "flash powder" is really rather expensive (copper oxide is not cheap)
pyrochris Posted August 29, 2006 Posted August 29, 2006 I know this is actually a thermite, but i have heard it makes a great cheap flash powder. I never tried it though. When thinking about it couldn't it be dangerous since small balls of copper would be throw from the device? Also anybody have any experience have any experience with zinc/sulfur flash powder? I am longing to find flash powders that do not require your "common" oxidizers.this would probably be considered dangerous, normal flash powders dont burn at very high temperatures, since this is a thermite, it will likely exceed 4000F
ltf Posted August 29, 2006 Posted August 29, 2006 zinc/sulfur is a nice flash, very very very slow, it want even explode, but it has a nice greenish color and the remains are ZnS which glows in the dark which is nice..
XenoN Posted August 29, 2006 Author Posted August 29, 2006 I saw the flash powder thread though i felt this did not fit so i created a new thread for it. I thought the CuO/Al would be great for lampora shells due to its incredibly high heat. If im not mistaken CuO can be made by mixing solutions of sodium hydroxide and water with copper sulphide and water 50:50 to 50:50. I believe that works for iron oxide as well.
asilentbob Posted August 29, 2006 Posted August 29, 2006 Using -325 coated flake Al and ceramic grade CuO (which can be very cheap) it gives a bright flash and nice report in salutes.
Mumbles Posted August 29, 2006 Posted August 29, 2006 Wow, this thread is so agrevating and has so much incorrect information it drives me crazy. First off there is no flash powder forum or section. There are threads on it. This thread is fine as a thread, but just filled with stupid shit already. Copper Oxide is not expensive. Not much more expensive than say even perc. Flash powders burn at extremely high heats, sometimes higher than thermites. Flash reaction in reality is just a fast thermite reaction as a generalisation. CuO can't be created by mixing solutions of NaOH and Copper Sulfide. First off, copper sulfide is insoluble. I think you mean copper sulfate, which is soluble. Even then mixing them gives copper hydroxide, not copper oxide. You can heat it and such to give the desired product though. Mixing 50:50 will give some product, but not as much as it could. Learn stoiciometry. Why does every flash thread end up talking about every formula on the face of the earth and become over run with morons who don't know what they're talking about? 2
XenoN Posted August 29, 2006 Author Posted August 29, 2006 Well ealier today i visited a seperate forum and they stated the synth the i provided. I do not feel comfortable buying perc over the internet and do not have a local supply so i have been looking for alternatives. For this reason i asked about the CuO/Al flash as well as the zinc/sulfur flash.
Frozentech Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 What the hell is that Zinc sulfur flash talk? It has absolutly nothing to do with anything in this thread. Why does every flash thread end up talking about every formula on the face of the earth and become over run with morons who don't know what they're talking about? Because an almost certain sign of newness and inexperience in pyro is to try to reinvent the wheel. An even surer sign is to look for alternative oxidizers because they are either too young, or too blatantly planning to break the law, to go out and buy them. If someone ( in the US ) is using a few grams of 70/30 to boost a break charge on an aerial shell, they won't be nervous about buying it from reputable sources, even on the internet. If they are too young, thier parents can sign for it, if they won't it's between them and thier folks I suppose...
XenoN Posted August 30, 2006 Author Posted August 30, 2006 I could easily order perc or KNO3 if i wanted to. I've worked with many types of flash before. I am just interested in new types for different effects. For example, zinc/sulfur mix makes a nice green flash. As opposed to normal white. I assume CuO/Al makes a nice blue if it follows coppers characteristics. I am in no way shape or form looking to break the law, or destroy somthing. I am completely against using explosives for destruction because it simply ruins it for the hobbiest.
Mumbles Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 If you think zinc/S flash makes a good green, you haven't seen anything yet. Also, CuO/Al is white.
XenoN Posted August 30, 2006 Author Posted August 30, 2006 What other flashes produce a green flame? I've never tried it but what are the effects of powdered copper with perc?
Mumbles Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 I dunno about the copper with perc. Chances are it would be blue. The best green flash I have found is 8:8:1 Mg:Ba(NO3)2:PVC
Grizzly Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Although i havent tried Zn/S Flash, I have seen a few videos of it and it burns a nice lime green, this burns very slow though.
lacrima97 Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Constant talk of flash powders on this forum this not particularly appreciated im afraid. As far as i know there is already section devoted to flash powders, please search the forum before posting in future.There are also many many sources for flash powder compositions all over the internet. The copper oxide "flash powder" is really rather expensive (copper oxide is not cheap) WTF buddy? Something such as Al/KClO4 is actually extremely hot. Do you not understand the amount of energy released? Energy = Light and Heat. When Al forms Al2O3 much energy is released. Zn/S doesn't really qualify as a flash in my opinion. It is just a slow burning green composition. It's pretty and everything, but not qualifying as a flash.
XenoN Posted August 30, 2006 Author Posted August 30, 2006 How about use as a rocket fuel? I'd imagin a large diameter nozzle would be needed.
hashashan Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 the Zn/S actually is considered as rocket propellant. not a very efficient one though. And compositions containing CuO will give a blue color only in the presence of a chlorine donor and when the temperature is low enough for the CuCl (that is formed) not to disintegrate therefore there is absolutely no chance in creating a thermite based blue flash using CuO.
Frozentech Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 I am just interested in new types for different effects. For example, zinc/sulfur mix makes a nice green flash. As opposed to normal white. I assume CuO/Al makes a nice blue if it follows coppers characteristics.Well, you could try the 40 year old color report compositions published by Ralph Degn, or the even older color "negative explosion" comps by Takeo Shimizu. [edit] here is 1 gram of Degn's Red Report comp burning loose in a catsup cup :Degn Red Report
shadopyro Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 Constant talk of flash powders on this forum this not particularly appreciated im afraid. As far as i know there is already section devoted to flash powders, please search the forum before posting in future.There are also many many sources for flash powder compositions all over the internet. The copper oxide "flash powder" is really rather expensive (copper oxide is not cheap)WTF buddy? Something such as Al/KClO4 is actually extremely hot. Do you not understand the amount of energy released? Energy = Light and Heat. When Al forms Al2O3 much energy is released. Zn/S doesn't really qualify as a flash in my opinion. It is just a slow burning green composition. It's pretty and everything, but not qualifying as a flash. What you mean WTF? as far as i know most talk about flash has been frowned upon, simply because people talk alotta crap in these cases or something.Hm i didnt mention anything about the energy output of combustion of Al either. Plus this guy was trying to find alternate flash powders and not the "Al/KClO4" compositions.
JrayJ Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpoz7fLXz5ISorry to drag up an old thread but if anyone cares here's a vid of some CuO/Al thermite burning... It is rather slow because I used coarse Al. I also used Al/S as my ignition mix as my mix isn't match sensitive. And a word to the wise, this mix is VERY good at setting everything in the surrounding area on fire. Edited July 23, 2009 by JrayJ
flying fish Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Yeah, that does throw molten copper quite a ways! I think I'll try some copper oxide & -325 Magnalium, as a shell booster. Never experimented with CuO thermites before, but now I'm curious. Would it be in any way hazardous to use this in a shell? I'm assuming it would disperse nicely...and not just fall down to the ground as a glowing-hot chunck of copper...
Ralph Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I could easily order perc or KNO3 if i wanted to. I've worked with many types of flash before. I am just interested in new types for different effects. For example, zinc/sulfur mix makes a nice green flash. As opposed to normal white. I assume CuO/Al makes a nice blue if it follows coppers characteristics. I am in no way shape or form looking to break the law, or destroy somthing. I am completely against using explosives for destruction because it simply ruins it for the hobbiest. um clearly a kwel sayng he could buy KNO3 if he wanted to anyway on the subject of colour of the flash i have found that when in close proximity it looks white but when it is in the air when i have done it it always seems to be more yellow in colour i cant explain why it is but that's what colour it appears in the sky just a note to any one making it the sensitivity seems to increase hugely with temperature. when i did my testing (this was using fine atomised) on a cold winter night (air temp around 2 degrees C) I found it very difficult to set of with a hammer on an anvil took many jarring hits to finely get it to go. during the day how ever (with a temperature of 25 C ) it was quite easily done with a decent blow again steal hammer on an anvil. and my final test was heating the mixture to the point were it was glowing red hot but did not ignite (was archived by taking a couple rice grains on a pop stick and heating it over a candle) than dropping it from 5cm was enough to get it to go off. so any one making CuO termite should note that on a hot day it will be more sensitive than on a cold day
TrueBluePyro Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Well, I like to use this Cuo/Al formular as a "exploding" target, it is very quiet when it goes off, there might be a small thud, and it is really fun to shoot at. I have tried it with granular, atomised (325 mesh), indian dark (2-4 micron) and for my needs they all burn very fast and nicely. I havent used it in a shell as a booster tho, so I cant help you there, tho, Id saying it would be a alright alturnitive to someone who cant get perc/al, or a kewl, trying to make a boomer. I also havent tried it as a report, it makes more of a soft "thud" when just wraped up in a ziplock bag and a bit of tape and then shot at.
flying fish Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Maybe I'll just stick with perc based boosters... It's an interesting curiosity though...I'm thinking like a color star shell broken with a CuO thermite...maybe it would aid in ignition (I've heard "people" say this before). As has been said, Perc flash is possibly hotter, but it doesn't have the benefit of a molten metal "spray", does it? The KCl and AL2O3 produced in perc flash might be hotter, but perhaps it's the heat capacity and duration of the sparks in thermite that does the trick? Of course safety is my main concern, hence the reason why I asked if CuO thermite produces fallout in shells. Don't want to start any fires... Edited July 24, 2009 by flying fish
Ralph Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 there is a fine spray of molten copper but not much most of it leaves the reaction as gas (a requirement for something to explode) and this is the pink/brown cloud you see when confined this stuff gives more than a soft thud it is very loud and powerful in the amounts I have used it (3g as a booster 1g on its own) it hasn't seemed to be as powerful as 70 30 perc 2-4micron dark boiling points of Al2O3 2980 °CCopper 2562 °CKCl 1420 °C as we know that these are the reaction products and we know gasses are given off it is safe to say that both mixtures must burn in excesses of 3000 °C
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