hst45 Posted August 30, 2006 Posted August 30, 2006 DAMN! Sorry Mumbles; you're right of course on the ratios. I edited them to correct same. Mia Culpa.
pyrochris Posted August 30, 2006 Author Posted August 30, 2006 thanks guys, will test this out tonight.
pyrochris Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 ok, i used an idiot tube to test out the lift, and all it did was it shot the tube out about 3ft off the ground . is there anything i can do to make it burn faster? Like add more sulfur?
Ozzy Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Try corning it, and if that dont work get better charcol.
justanotherpyro Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 When I make my lift I wet 200g with 10% by weight 75:25 water/alcohol, mix thoroughly, and press with a 5 ton bottle jack into a puck. I break the puck up into a few pieces and just lightly tap with a 5 lb sledge hammer while its in the screen (which is sitting on a hard surface) and then as needed pick the seive up and let pieces fall through. It is essential to do this while the puck is still wet as it saves much trouble and you get more uniform sized pieces. I don't even use dextrin and the granules are very hard.
pyrochris Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 Try corning it, and if that dont work get better charcol. im pretty sure theres nothing better than airfloat willow charcoal.
ActionTekJackson Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Try corning it, and if that dont work get better charcol.im pretty sure theres nothing better than airfloat willow charcoal. just out of curiosity, was it in fact corned? Also, what weight of lift did you use compared to the weight of your dummy shell?
pyrochris Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 Try corning it, and if that dont work get better charcol.im pretty sure theres nothing better than airfloat willow charcoal. just out of curiosity, was it in fact corned? Also, what weight of lift did you use compared to the weight of your dummy shell? i used 10% of lift-to-shell ratio
Ozzy Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Dude if your using willow you fucked up some how, my GOOD willow bp MEAL powder will launch a shell perfect if i granulate it. It blows the fucking tube apart but thats when i cook charcol wich isnt very often.
pyrochris Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 Dude if your using willow you fucked up some how, my GOOD willow bp MEAL powder will launch a shell perfect if i granulate it. It blows the fucking tube apart but thats when i cook charcol wich isnt very often. coult it be the kno3? Its little granules of it, i mean VERY small, like 100 mesh maybe, is that too big? And i cant really be sending ball mills to my house, because my parents will totally get suspicious.
Mephistos Minion Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 All BP chems should be airfloat dude, use a coffee grinder to get them there.
pyrochris Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 All BP chems should be airfloat dude, use a coffee grinder to get them there. the sulfur is pretty much powdered down as much as it can be, its just the kno3, i guess its just not there yet.
Mumbles Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Wait, so let me get this straight, you didn't ball mill the stuff. All the pressing it to be done after ballmilling. Ball milling is key, pressing just gives a little extra power and speed. Also, make sure the powder is dry. Just because it doesn't feel wet, doesn't mean it's dry. In this case I'd let it go for at least 3 days even if you used alcohol.
pyrochris Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 Wait, so let me get this straight, you didn't ball mill the stuff. All the pressing it to be done after ballmilling. Ball milling is key, pressing just gives a little extra power and speed. Also, make sure the powder is dry. Just because it doesn't feel wet, doesn't mean it's dry. In this case I'd let it go for at least 3 days even if you used alcohol. well, i usually order the chemicals powdered down, it is just easier for me and i have the $ for it. A ball mill in my household is just out of the question, especially in my state.
TheSidewinder Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 My terminology is apparently incorrect, for which I apologize. I am in fact merely pressing this through a screen. My process is as follows. *****SNIP***** While I have you here, what are your thoughts as to the pros and cons of pressing-cakes-then-crushing compared to the press-through-screen method? No apology necessary. Like I said, with anything pyro, there's quite a few ways to go from A to B. To answer you and another poster, the alcohol helps the charcoal absorb the water, by reducing the surface tension. In stars with a high charcoal content, alcohol is almost mandatory. But I'm told no more than 25% or so. In your case, the method you used is perfectly OK if you don't mind the dust and crumbling. In stars, that alcohol ALSO speeds up the drying process somewhat, but they will still take a long time to dry. I don't THINK alcohol affects the lift/burn/break ability of your powder at all, you'll just get harder grains that resist crumbling (and therefore "powdering") if you use the lower percentage. As to your second question, pressing and corning definitely produces BP that is denser and "hotter" than one simply riced and pressed through a screen, but that's somewhat irrelevant for our uses. We can just use a bit more of it to make up for the difference. I do not press and corn myself, I just rice. And with both the Willow and Pine charcoals I got from LadyKate, they make a HOT powder. Equal to commercial 2Fg in my experience. I ballmill (ok, Lortone rock tumbler actually) the mix for 24 to 48 hours, then wet and rice it. In any case, your BP is fine as is. If you wish to experiment, cut back the alcohol to 15% for one batch, do everything else the same, and see if you get harder grains. You should, and they will produce less dust. Hope that helped! M
hst45 Posted August 31, 2006 Posted August 31, 2006 Sidewinder, I actually tried two side-by-side tests last night, one with my usual method and one with water only. Looking at the drying kernals this morning, the water-only batch is MUCH harder, as you advised. Funny thing, I'll need to adjust my wetness since the water-only batch was larger kernals than I ususlly get, and stuck together more. As with everything, you change one variable and others will have to be adjusted, but isn't that the fun of it all, the experamentation?
pyrochris Posted August 31, 2006 Author Posted August 31, 2006 Sidewinder, I actually tried two side-by-side tests last night, one with my usual method and one with water only. Looking at the drying kernals this morning, the water-only batch is MUCH harder, as you advised. Funny thing, I'll need to adjust my wetness since the water-only batch was larger kernals than I ususlly get, and stuck together more. As with everything, you change one variable and others will have to be adjusted, but isn't that the fun of it all, the experamentation? could it be that i was trying to use this in an idiot tube? (basically a tube that shoots a tube in the air, basically its a 1 shot mortar really) I will definately try it tonight with a real shell.
Mumbles Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Well, the granules are bigger because more dextrin is activated. Thus it is stickier and breaks up less. I found that when granulating my stuff through a 4 mesh, the granules were a bit too big. I started using a 6 mesh and its a lot better. Basically I use -6+16 as my lift equivalent, and -16+30 as my burst in smaller shells. I have done tests, and pressing is definatly superior. I am working on making a larger press to make appreciable quantities. When simply granulating I find I need to use a smaller mesh to get adequate lift as opposed to pressing. I am using commercial BP as lift at the moment. http://mumble.freepgs.com/Pyro/BP.html
pyrochris Posted September 1, 2006 Author Posted September 1, 2006 Well, the granules are bigger because more dextrin is activated. Thus it is stickier and breaks up less. I found that when granulating my stuff through a 4 mesh, the granules were a bit too big. I started using a 6 mesh and its a lot better. Basically I use -6+16 as my lift equivalent, and -16+30 as my burst in smaller shells. I have done tests, and pressing is definatly superior. I am working on making a larger press to make appreciable quantities. When simply granulating I find I need to use a smaller mesh to get adequate lift as opposed to pressing. I am using commercial BP as lift at the moment. http://mumble.freepgs.com/Pyro/BP.html mumbles if you burn a few pieces of lift pellets, does it burn instantly or does it burn slow, mine is burning slow.
h0lx Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 water-only? How did you manage to mix it? Mine wont get wet at all because of surface tension, until I add a drop of alcohol, hen it mixes easily.
pyrochris Posted September 1, 2006 Author Posted September 1, 2006 water-only? How did you manage to mix it? Mine wont get wet at all because of surface tension, until I add a drop of alcohol, hen it mixes easily. i mixed water only, it was fine. But i really need some ball milled kno3
Von Bass` Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 i mixed water only, it was fine. But i really need some ball milled kno3 Ball milling isnt just done for the particle size of the individual components. It is also done to lock the KNO3 particles into the micropores on the charcoal. This increases the speed of burning dramatically. Try ball milling 50g of BP with airfloat chems and no balls for three hours. The resulting powder will be fast, but nothing on a same batch made over the same time, but with balls.
pyrochris Posted September 1, 2006 Author Posted September 1, 2006 i mixed water only, it was fine. But i really need some ball milled kno3 Ball milling isnt just done for the particle size of the individual components. It is also done to lock the KNO3 particles into the micropores on the charcoal. This increases the speed of burning dramatically. Try ball milling 50g of BP with airfloat chems and no balls for three hours. The resulting powder will be fast, but nothing on a same batch made over the same time, but with balls. wow, damn. Guess ill have to get a ball mill for christmas then!
Mumbles Posted September 1, 2006 Posted September 1, 2006 Actually research has been done and there is no chemicals in the pores of the charcoal. The increase is speed is created by the greater degree of mixing the balls do. It also makes the chems even finer. No matter how "airfloat" your chems are, they won't be as fine as they can be. Even airfloat charcoal isn't as fine as it can be.
Von Bass` Posted September 2, 2006 Posted September 2, 2006 Actually research has been done and there is no chemicals in the pores of the charcoal. The increase is speed is created by the greater degree of mixing the balls do. It also makes the chems even finer. No matter how "airfloat" your chems are, they won't be as fine as they can be. Even airfloat charcoal isn't as fine as it can be. sorry, I haven't really looked into that for a long time now. Am I correct in saying that there are 'micro pores' in charcoal? If so, why does the 'CIA' method work as well as the ball milling method? Is it just because the KN03 is recrystalised at such a rate that it becomes such a fine powder? Thanks for clearing this up.
Recommended Posts