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Looking for a friction ignition comp?


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Posted

Again, displaying my ignorance in this arena.:wub:

 

The title says almost all.

 

Prefer one without sodium chlorate, if that is possible?

 

I have searched, but all I found are mostly sodium chlorate.

 

Less sensitive (so long as it will ignite with friction) is far better than very sensitive.

 

Thanks for any comp, or pointers where to find one.

 

Posted

I don't know of one that doesn't use a chlorate, usually potassium chlorate tho - sodium chlorate is hygroscopic and quickly gets to damp to ignite.

 

You might try experimenting with matches and the striker strips off of match books. I'm pretty sure I could get that to work.

Posted (edited)

Red phosphorus, sodium & potassium chlorate are getting to be a regulatory PITA :blink: to acquire.

Especially so in bulk amounts. Then add the increased cost of hazard shipping & it gets worse yet.:wacko:

 

Good match composition data @ link below:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match

 

Safety match: Their safety is due to the separation of the reactive ingredients between a match head on the end of a paraffin-impregnated splint and a special striking surface, and the replacement of white phosphorus with red phosphorus. The striking surface is composed of typically 25% powdered glass, 50% red phosphorus, 5% neutralizer, 4% carbon black and 16% binder; and the match head is typically composed of 45-55% potassium chlorate, with a little sulfur and starch, a neutralizer (ZnO or CaCO3), 20-40% of siliceous filler, diatomite and glue. Some heads contain antimony(III) sulfide so they burn more vigorously. Safety matches ignite due to the extreme reactivity of phosphorus with the potassium chlorate in the match head. When the match is struck the phosphorus and chlorate mix in a small amount forming something similar to the explosive Armstrong's mixture which ignites due to the friction.

 

What I am looking for is a comp like they use to ignite warning type road hazard flares.:rolleyes:

 

 

Edited by oldguy
Posted

What I am looking for is a comp like they use to ignite warning type road hazard flares.:rolleyes:

 

Hi "oldguy",

 

According to Ellern, the black button on the end of a railroad fusee ("warning type road hazard flares") is something like:

 

50 potassium chlorate

30 antimony sulfide

20 dextrin

 

and the red striker compound is the same as on a book or box of matches. Try:

 

50 red phosphorus

30 sand with clean sharp edges

20 dextrin

 

I've made and used the first composition many years ago and can assure you it works, even though the amount of dextrin seems excessive. I haven't used the second composition but have no reason to doubt it will work just fine. I did try the first one with a used flare striker and it took right off. Make sure everything is fully dry and it should function as advertised.

 

WSM B)

Posted
What the intended purpose for this comp? I know of a few, but they could be dangerous in the wrong application.
Posted

What the intended purpose for this comp? I know of a few, but they could be dangerous in the wrong application.

 

Nohing strange, it's to light a special purpose ground flare.

The flare comp will ignite with visco.

But I would prefer to put a friction comp & cap on it.

 

Posted

Well you can simply use a wet mixed paste of:

 

Potassium chlorate - 5

Sulfur - 5

Dextrin - 1

 

I have some documentation of quite a few sensitive comps, but that is the simplest. You can either put a glob right onto the end of the flare, or place a fuse in, then dip the end of the fuse into the paste so there is some delay in ignition. Don't run around with anything with a sensitive comp such as that in your pocket, and don't store it for long before use. Any comp that can ignite via friction is not something you want laying around in the same building where you sleep.

Posted

Sounds like a "crack ball" comp, without the powdered glass.

Plus, it would be to friction or impact sensitive to ever hike around with or ship.

None-the less thanks for taking a shot at it.

 

Posted
Out of curiosity, how does one mix these comps? Diaper method? How explosive is this composition
Posted (edited)

Out of curiosity, how does one mix these comps? Diaper method? How explosive is this composition

 

 

WET MIX, from what I gather.

http://www.skylighte...crack-balls.asp

 

I found a kit @ "FireFox" for pull string friction ignition.

So, there is a way.

Edited by oldguy
Posted
cool, well I have very little interest in making these I was just curious.
Posted (edited)

Sounds like a "crack ball" comp, without the powdered glass.

Plus, it would be to friction or impact sensitive to ever hike around with or ship.

None-the less thanks for taking a shot at it.

 

I hope you never intend to ship any firework composition, as that would be a felony. You also may not transport any composition by public road without a license from the ATF. The composition I have listed is as insensitive as any can hope to be that can ignite via friction. By nature such a composition is sensitive.

 

Edit: and yes, these compositions are mixed wet, into a paste as I have mentioned.

Edited by NightHawkInLight
Posted (edited)

Please don't get me wrong. I meant no disrespect & thanked you for your input.

 

However, you make it sound as if its against the law to carry a book of ordinary matches on a public road, or for that matter a road hazard safety flare in your car traveling on a public road. I have no intent to ship any comp.

 

But might transport or ship an end product (a special purpose ground flare), if the transport was verified as perfectly legal, with a proper shipping classification and UN #, once assigned.

 

That is exactly why I am looking for an insensitive friction ignition comp, such as ordinary safety matches, or road hazard safety flares have.

Edited by oldguy
Posted

Please don't get me wrong. I meant no disrespect & thanked you for your input.

 

However, you make it sound as if its against the law to carry a book of ordinary matches on a public road, or for that matter a road hazard safety flare in your car traveling on a public road. I have no intent to ship any comp.

 

But might transport or ship an end product (a special purpose ground flare), if the transport was verified as perfectly legal, with a proper shipping classification and UN #, once assigned.

 

That is exactly why I am looking for an insensitive friction ignition comp, such as ordinary safety matches, or road hazard safety flares have.

Any self oxidizing composition you make yourself, regardless if it just burns like a flare or explodes violently such as flash, is absolutely illegal to ship (or give to anyone for that matter), and requires a license to transport. Unless your finished product meets all the standards given for consumer fireworks by the CPSC, DOT, and whatever other government agencies have their fingers in the mix, anything down to a sparkler that you make will be considered 1.3G commercial fireworks. Without a license, you are limited to using anything you make on your own property within 24 hours of completion. Any longer and it must be stored in a magazine compliant with ATF specs. You may have a licensed individual take possession of what you make to transport if no money is exchanged, but legally they may not give it back to you, as that would be considered giving commercial explosives to a civilian. It's serious stuff.

Posted

I know that. I am a retired mining engineer & quarry owner.

 

I have driven miles of hard rock tunnels, sank big bore shaft & pioneered numerous quarry sites with HE.

 

After near 30 years with one, I gave up my blasting license not long after 9/11.

 

Because the insurance rates increased dramatically.

 

I am looking for an insensitive friction comp.

 

Any help there would be appreciated.

 

 

Posted

Alright, I apologize. Your knowledge was not made clear in your posts.

 

However, as I said before, there are no insensitive, yet friction sensitive comps. It doesn't make sense. The only thing that could be done is a binary comp such as is used with a match head and a striker.

Posted

"binary comp such as is used with a match head and a striker"

 

I agree & that looks like the way to go.

It's well known, tested tried & true for generations.

Getting a little RP is the pain.

But, no pain, no gain.

I will just have to bear the pain & figure out how legally.

 

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