NightHawkInLight Posted December 6, 2010 Posted December 6, 2010 Check this out, I don't have time to make a comment right now, but wow... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101206/ap_on_re_us/us_explosive_house
Xtreme Pyro Posted December 6, 2010 Posted December 6, 2010 (edited) Check this out, I don't have time to make a comment right now, but wow... http://news.yahoo.co...explosive_house Me and a few other people were talking about this in chat the other night, the guy is crazy when you hurt someone else with your hobby, there's an issue. It defiantly sheds some bad light on legit hobbyist. I don't understand why someone would want to make that kind of stuff, it makes you wonder what he was really going to do with it. Edited December 6, 2010 by Xtreme Pyro
Updup Posted December 6, 2010 Posted December 6, 2010 (edited) Woah, what a prosses! I can't belive chemical residue would be volital enough to do that much damage when the poor ol' gardener steped on it, puts the flash we some of us work with in prespective. Edited December 7, 2010 by Updup
Algenco Posted December 6, 2010 Posted December 6, 2010 Woah, what a prosses! I can't belive cemical residue would be volital enough to do that much damage when the poor ol' gardener steped on it, puts the flash we work with in prespective. Gardner started a fire and burned some, that's when the explosion occurred
pyrokid Posted December 6, 2010 Posted December 6, 2010 Gardner started a fire and burned some, that's when the explosion occurred Ha! they left that out of the "super sensitive chemical residue bit"!
KruseMissile Posted December 6, 2010 Posted December 6, 2010 Yeah, this is close to me lol. Parents were telling me to look out.
pyrochris732 Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 what do you guys mean by hobby? He's a terrorist.
NightHawkInLight Posted December 7, 2010 Author Posted December 7, 2010 what do you guys mean by hobby? He's a terrorist.No kidding. What did the article say, three time bank robber? At least it's obvious in the article that he wasn't making fireworks, so our reputation as amateur pyros doesn't seem to have taken a hit. I don't like anything that makes people think there needs to be more regulation on chemicals though, even if they are just for use in HE. I don't use the stuff much, but I like having the option.
Arthur Posted December 7, 2010 Posted December 7, 2010 Surely they have a disposable robot to clear it up, -the guy who put it there! Robot camera to watch him and let him bring it out bit by bit. Then they might actually have some current state of the art EOD test pieces and lots of knowledge of what the bad guy's are doing.
NightHawkInLight Posted December 7, 2010 Author Posted December 7, 2010 If I were on the bomb squad I wouldn't want a bank robber who's casting and stockpiling his own grenades to be given the job of carrying them out towards me with the thought of a surefire conviction on his head...
pyrochris732 Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 also, why did they have to burn the house down? Why couldnt they slowly remove the items and burn them somewhere else?
Mumbles Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 Why would california do that when they can spend everyone else's money on this extravagant scheme?
dagabu Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 Here is my take, the burn is tomorrow so we will see if I am correct or not. The cops start the fire, the house burns for 15-20 minutes then it goes high order and there are dead people. The guy whose house it is is then charged with murder and everyone's house that gets damaged eats it because their insurance does not pay for claims that the damage was deliberately done to them. It will be fun to watch no doubt and all Californians will be watching it live via helicopters too.
optimus Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 the house burns for 15-20 minutes then it goes high order I'm no expert, but I didn't think PETN was flame-sensetive?
inonickname Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) I'm no expert, but I didn't think PETN was flame-sensetive? It is. From experience with ETN (which is also contained in that house), which is an extremely similar compound, albeit more sensitive, WILL go high order from heat and minimal containment. Some balled up in alfoil and held over a flame will go high order reliably. Hit it with a blowtorch, and it will go high order nearly every time. PETN and ETN are fairly sensitive. ETN in particular. If they think they can burn a house to the ground with incendiaries, with these explosives in solid, contained metallic chambers, and not have it go high order then they're retarded. Given the circumstances, from what I hear (ETN in grenades, house being burnt to the ground) I can say with absolutely no doubt that there will be some going high order. However, a regular sized grenade should not do extensive damage, especially seen as it's contained in the house. If there are larger amounts of explosives grouped together, then that could very easily change. Personally, I think burning a house full of explosives is stupid on principle alone. They could drown the house in a lot of water very easily, and cautiously extract the hopefully [temporarily] inert explosives. How many of these crudely made devices would you expect to be completely waterproof? And if something detonates, who cares? Compared to what this has already cost a bomb disposal robot can't be worth much. ETN will decompose at 160 celsius. If it's contained, and heated rapidly (say, by an incendiary device full of phosphorous) it WILL go high order. Hopefully noone gets hurt and no other property is damaged. If that's the case, I'm looking forward to seeing it on youtube. A child in elementary school could tell you this is a fucking stupid idea Edit: There was more to be found sprinkled inside the home, as well as mason jars of chemicals, hand grenades, small arms ammunition and guns. Prosecutors called it the largest amount of homemade explosives found in one location in the history of the United States. Read more: http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/12/06/burning-down-the-house-california-police-to-set-%ef%ac%81re-to-residence-full-of-explosives/#ixzz17X6oQBLZ On that statement, assuming they haven't managed to remove too much, then I'll put my bet as: There will be a reasonably large scale high order explosion. Nearby property will probably suffer a reasonable amount of damage. Idiots defend their decision to burn house full of explosives. Cardboard box around house should be thicker next time. Public realizes burning explosives is a bad idea. Edited December 8, 2010 by inonickname
optimus Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 Thanks for the clarification inonickname - definitely one to watch then. Here's hoping they clear a large area and that no local residents / news helis get hit by flying chunks of 2x4.
dagabu Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 I'm no expert, but I didn't think PETN was flame-sensetive? True, the issue is not the PETN it is any other item that can cause the shock-wave that the PETN needs to go high order. Consider all of the chems that by themselves do not burn particularly well but a continued heat source can cause deflagration which in turn is just what insensitive explosives like C-4 and PETN need to ignite. I am not sure what is going to happen there but I would not be surprised in the least if it does go HO.
Arthur Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 Let's hope that the Mason jars are not full of anything unconventional Here's the chance for the state to let off their very own dirty bo_b!
dagabu Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) Let's hope that the Mason jars are not full of anything unconventional Here's the chance for the state to let off their very own dirty bo_b! Nope, they did a Geiger counter as part of their exploration process. "The San Diego Union-Tribune reports that "the lawyer for accused bomb maker George Jakubec ... has asked a federal judge to stop the demolition plans. The request is scheduled to be heard at noon today in downtown San Diego."" It was also mentioned that he was just renting the house. Edited December 8, 2010 by dagabu
Updup Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 Nope, they did a Geiger counter as part of their exploration process. "The San Diego Union-Tribune reports that "the lawyer for accused bomb maker George Jakubec ... has asked a federal judge to stop the demolition plans. The request is scheduled to be heard at noon today in downtown San Diego."" It was also mentioned that he was just renting the house. Well that seems smart, after all, this George guy will be the one to know whats going to happen if they burn it all.
inonickname Posted December 9, 2010 Posted December 9, 2010 Well that seems smart, after all, this George guy will be the one to know whats going to happen if they burn it all. Well, it seems he didn't want it burnt down because he thinks there's something in there that will make him look innocent... IMO, when you put people around you in danger by filling your house with explosives, then your rights should be put on the backburner. The judge has (2 hours ago) refused to cancel or postpone the burn. It will still go ahead, not long from now. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B74R520101208 Heat isn't the only thing to consider. Hot chunks of metal, embers, bits of 2x4's etc. are probably going to fall on the explosives as well. Not just that, but there's HMTD which will go high order as soon as its hit with a flame. ETN and PETN initiate easily. Hell, heavily confined flash can initiate ETN. Confinement and heat will. A hit from a hammer will. Sometimes a hot fuse and confinement will initiate it. A few mason jars full of HMTD? No doubt.
dagabu Posted December 9, 2010 Posted December 9, 2010 Looks like the burn is going well, no explosions at all.
Zeus Posted December 9, 2010 Posted December 9, 2010 Any news, the thought of burning ETN & PETN seems like it deserves a Darwin award, not to mention HMTD :shudder: The reason they won't remove anything is they've got no idea how well the "magic stuff" was synthed, it could have more impurities than the surroundings of a k3wl after he made his last l33t 25KG APAN b_mbz0rz. And HMTD degrades with age thus potentially increasing it's sensitivity, thus you can't take the other stuff away first because it could set off the HMTD, and removing the HMTD first would cause problems of course. If I consider it, I'd rather burn that stuff from a great distance than risk lives trying to remove it. Flooding the house could be a problem, I've never read about the toxicity of the aforementioned magic stuff, though if he's made picric acid that is rather toxic, not something I'd like in the waterways. Sorry if I'm stepping around words a bit much, I'm used to a forum where it's quite nescessary.
Updup Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 Looks like the burn is going well, no explosions at all. Where are you watching it?
dagabu Posted December 10, 2010 Posted December 10, 2010 It was a live feed from Fox News. http://interactive.foxnews.com/livestream/live.html?chanId=2&openAIR=true
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