AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 16, 2010 Posted September 16, 2010 I know this has probably been discussed to death here and elsewhere, but I´d nevertheless love to hear some tried and tested nozzle mixes for both gerb and rocket applications. I assume that one mix can be used for all kinds of devices. Do you have some nice-looking, rock hard comps to suggest? I remember exotic additions like mineral oil....it´s been a while since I read through such threads. Now I have a gerb and a rocket tool at hand and it´s time to get started.
dagabu Posted September 16, 2010 Posted September 16, 2010 ADS, I think nozzle materials are a lot like sex, everyone has their own style but the same basic tools are used. I think that if you find some extremely cheap kitty litter that has no flavor crystals, you would be fine but you can add refractory clay, oil, wax, eye of newt..... I have a full 5 gallon pail of my SUPER NOZZLE MIX that I have not touched in three months since I tried kitty litter again (Wall-Mart red bag). Ask 10 rocketeers, you will surely get 11 answers
ausgoty Posted September 16, 2010 Posted September 16, 2010 I have been using "neds nozzle mix", that I get from a local supplier, lately. Makes a lovely nozzle. I think it is just bentonite with wax and grog. I'm sure I could make it myself but this sells for about $3.00 per kilo. So why bother Going bushwalking in the snow for the next 4 days, bloody cold here in Tassie today!
Fly Posted September 16, 2010 Posted September 16, 2010 I also use kitty litter.I grind it up to a powder in a old hand crank meat grinder I got at a flee market.I adda little mineral oil.It works for me. Fly
Pyropow3r Posted September 18, 2010 Posted September 18, 2010 I know this has probably been discussed to death here and elsewhere, but I´d nevertheless love to hear some tried and tested nozzle mixes for both gerb and rocket applications. I assume that one mix can be used for all kinds of devices. Do you have some nice-looking, rock hard comps to suggest? I remember exotic additions like mineral oil....it´s been a while since I read through such threads. Now I have a gerb and a rocket tool at hand and it´s time to get started. Well here is my 2 cents on that topic...... Use any other well known nozzle mixture like Neds or David sleeters.......and here is where i come in add some metal powders/filings to the comp. non reactive metals of course.... like some steel/iron filings. I just keep adding it to the mix until i think its right...... well there ya go a good nozzle mix and those suckers don't erode
Algenco Posted April 8, 2011 Posted April 8, 2011 Grog Where do you get it cheap. Steve http://www.axner.com/raw-materials.aspx
WSM Posted April 9, 2011 Posted April 9, 2011 GrogWhere do you get it cheap? Steve Smash up some fired clay (pottery). That is generally where it comes from. Cut out the middle man and save. WSM
Blackthumb Posted April 10, 2011 Posted April 10, 2011 Tried Diatomaceous earth....NAPA Oil Absorbent.....nozzle blew out...back to good ole' kitty litter....
vegasdude Posted April 10, 2011 Posted April 10, 2011 Gotta agree on the Kitty Litter... Fresh Step milled and pressed over 6500psi is rock hard.
WonderBoy Posted April 10, 2011 Posted April 10, 2011 I like kitty litter as is (not milled) plus 3% oil.I find that even from simply ramming I get a nice solid nozzle, or bulkhead. Also, I have dissected a motor with a nozzle rammed in this fashion and found that the kitty litter grains left indentions in the tube wall, which I equate to helping hold the nozzle in the tube. But I also "cheat" when ramming BP motors using NEPT tubes. I use a single wall sleeve, and tighten hose clamps all the way up, except right where the nozzle is. This allows the tube to expand slightly and further lock in the nozzle. With chipboard tubes I don't find this to be necessary. Also, on passfire there was much discussion about this, and multiple people claimed that 50:50 kyanite:benonite clay gave the best erosion resistance. I have not yet tried this mix.
aftertheaftershock Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 http://www.axner.com...-materials.aspx I feel like the gates of heaven have just been opened for me!!! Much thanks!
pyroguy1960 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 +1 100% for kitty litter. Just some background, I had bought some bentonite clay early on and the nozzles it made sucked compared to the ones I get with the kitty litter. I use tidy cats and it even has the flavor crystals or whatever in it and still works excellent, I have never had a failure once and have pressed over 30 drivers and motors including the following: 4# gerbs4# end burners with really hot BP1# BP cored rockets1# gerbs4# stinger missles I prep it by grinding it into a fine powder in a mortar/pestle, no need to mill it only takes a few seconds to do it this way, I'll never use anything else. The only thing I can't speak to is whistles and strobe rockets as I have not gotten into those yet.
dagabu Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) The only thing I can't speak to is whistles and strobe rockets as I have not gotten into those yet. No need, neither use a nozzle. Nozzleless rockets dont use nozzles either (duh) so you are off the hook there as well. Here is the real test though, kitty litter is "self regulating", meaning that as the pressure increases, the nozzle erodes allowing the pressure to escape. Use a veneer caliper and measure your nozzles before and after firing a test motor. I switched to a composite nozzle mix after I was chided by a well respected pyro on another forum about kitty litter for nozzles. I measured both nozzles at .562 where the clay ended right before the fuel started before firing, the kitty litter nozzle opened up to .738 and the composite nozzle only opened up to .568. Hands down deal breaker with kitty litter. But as i say, to each his own, if it is "meh" you are looking for then kitty litter is the deal of the day at $4.00 for 25#. If you are looking for high performance then you should look at better materials. Big difference from my last post huh? Edited April 21, 2011 by dagabu
pyroguy1960 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) I agree 100% when you stated "to each his own" By the way dag are you going to any of the NH events? Edited April 21, 2011 by pyroguy1960
moondogman Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 "I have a full 5 gallon pail of my SUPER NOZZLE MIX " And what would that be Dave?? Steve
dagabu Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 I agree 100% when you stated "to each his own" By the way dag are you going to any of the NH events? No, though I would love to come see TR's rockets... I am from Minnesota, too far for me to travel.
pyroguy1960 Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 oh yea that's right, for some reason I had it stuck in my head that you were in new england...
dagabu Posted April 21, 2011 Posted April 21, 2011 (edited) I have to get home and look at the recipe, I can post it later.50 parts Hawthorne Fireclay, 40 mesh25 parts Kyanite, 100 mesh25 parts Grog, super fine, 48 mesh25 parts Bentonite clay Edited April 21, 2011 by dagabu
moondogman Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 I have to get home and look at the recipe, I can post it later.50 parts Hawthorne Fireclay, 40 mesh25 parts Kyanite, 100 mesh25 parts Grog, super fine, 48 mesh25 parts Bentonite clay No wax or oil or any binder?? Steve
pyropulsion Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 Awesome info! I love this site!I started out with hobby rocketry, so I have been using bentonite clay that I picked up from a pottery supply store.I will try mixing it with parafin I guess.
dagabu Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 OH DANG!! Sorry, take a wax toilet ring and melt it, add the same weight in camping gas (Coleman) but make sure there is no heat source left on. Add the wax to 50# of nozzle mix, place the nozzle mix in cake pans and bake for 30 minutes and run through a 10 mesh screen twice to integrate the remaining wax. -dag
pyropulsion Posted May 4, 2011 Posted May 4, 2011 OH DANG!! Sorry, take a wax toilet ring and melt it, add the same weight in camping gas (Coleman) but make sure there is no heat source left on. Add the wax to 50# of nozzle mix, place the nozzle mix in cake pans and bake for 30 minutes and run through a 10 mesh screen twice to integrate the remaining wax. -dag Thanks for the instructions. Real nice.
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