DIY wireless firing system?

[50AE]

I'm planing of making my own firing system and I'm thinking if it could be wireless. Do you have any idea at what frequency commercial transmitters work? And could it be possible to find any schematic. I really don't have money to buy myself a many-cue wireless system.

Edit: I have some schematics of PIC based remotes, but without knowing the frequency it serves me nothing.

Edited September 1, 2010 by 50AE

[Twotails]

Would it be possable to dis-assemble a remote controlled car and use that(after you tweak it to ignight a Ematch or somthign similer)? or would it not reach the desired distance(in guessing you'd want it to be a minimum of 300-500ft range if possable?) not realy my thing(electronics) but if i were to hazard a try i'd work from there. or dis assemble a preditor systome and see if it can be reproduced on a larger scale(as i've heard those infra-red remote firing systomes sold for $30-40 dont work that well, so so says the guy at Atomic fireworks in NH) Edited September 1, 2010 by Twotails

[FrankRizzo]

Your best bet is to just buy a ready-made transmitter and receiver board from the Chinese. There are many different relay board combinations and transmitters with varying levels of output power.

 

I recommend these folks:

 

http://www.e-madeinchn.com/RelayReceivers.html

"Stephen Ye" <yezuyuan@hotmail.com> is the guy with whom I ordered last time.

 

Read this thread for pricing info:

http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?11704-Discount-on-wireless-boards-and-transmitters.

[Peret]

You can buy ready-made transmitter and receiver modules for not much money as electronic components. The cited parts are 418MHz and claim a range of 1000 meters, but there are many others available like them. Some of the Chinese parts are ridiculously cheap, though they don't have the range. It takes a bit of work and specialized knowledge to turn them into a complete firing system, since you'll need microprocessors at either end to encode and decode the data stream, but it's a do-able amateur project. If you download the data sheets you'll get some idea of what's involved.

[Lionel]

I put together a 32 queue system based on the emadeinchn board a few weeks ago. It was certainly a lot of work, but I learned a few lessons I think that will make it much easier to assemble my next.

 

I used one of the "JoeRatMan" designs from pyro u

 

[Arthur]

There is a whole forum on PyroUniverse about making firing systems. Posts by JoeRatman are very well written and full of details. Also the forum gives the contact details for the Chinese place that sends out the boards. However no two people agree on the perfect design! So please read a lot of posts there and make your own design from your take on all of the others.

 

The simple Chinese boards are all the same code (uncoded!) SO it is important that you consider changing the code on those boards -it's dead simple. Otherwise everyone on a site can fire your cues.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Arthur

[50AE]

Thanks a lot guys! I'm planning to buy:

 

A.12CH Receiver,

Model No.: RR12-8M4L,

 

B.12CH 2000m Transmitter,

Model No.: TCL2000-1

 

The receiver has 8 momentary and 4 latch switches. It means I can make it 8x4=32 cues!

[mike_au]

I have a tendency to carry on about this subject a bit, but those radios are really not suitable for pyrotechnics use. They are AM based, making them significantly more susceptible to interference than an FM based radio would be and they use an extremely common radio band (the same as many garage door openers, keyless entry remotes, etc).

 

There is quite a significant risk a of stray signal messing with your transmission.

 

You mentioned PICs, are you familiar with working with microcontrollers? There are some *much* better radios available if you can deal with have to do a little more setting up.

 

The Xbee radios (available from sparkfun.com, make sure you read up on the differences between series 1 and series 2) have built in 128bit encryption and checksuming. They can do packet based transmission if connected to a uC by serial, or you can just hook some of the IO pins to a serial->parallel shift register to gain a few dozen cues quite easily.

 

If you have the ability to build your system around something like an Xbee I would strongly suggest you go that way rather than using cheap generic junk that uses the same encoding as every $5 remote control car and doorbell.

[FrankRizzo]

I have a tendency to carry on about this subject a bit, but those radios are really not suitable for pyrotechnics use. They are AM based, making them significantly more susceptible to interference than an FM based radio would be and they use an extremely common radio band (the same as many garage door openers, keyless entry remotes, etc).

 

There is quite a significant risk a of stray signal messing with your transmission.

 

You mentioned PICs, are you familiar with working with microcontrollers? There are some *much* better radios available if you can deal with have to do a little more setting up.

 

The Xbee radios (available from sparkfun.com, make sure you read up on the differences between series 1 and series 2) have built in 128bit encryption and checksuming. They can do packet based transmission if connected to a uC by serial, or you can just hook some of the IO pins to a serial->parallel shift register to gain a few dozen cues quite easily.

 

If you have the ability to build your system around something like an Xbee I would strongly suggest you go that way rather than using cheap generic junk that uses the same encoding as every $5 remote control car and doorbell.

 

Mike,

 

You need not carry on any further. The receiver and transmitters are both encoded (user-defined through dip switch), and the likelihood of a cheap remote control car or remote doorbell being on the same encoding and having enough power to reach the receiver is *VERY* low. The K.I.S.S. philosophy comes into play here.

 

If 50AE is getting the PyroU discount, the board/transmitter are likely costing him less than $30USD.

Edited September 3, 2010 by FrankRizzo

[Arthur]

The E Made in China boards are not the highest available security but IF you follow best practice, then the audience are far enough away then even a misfire would be safe. If the receivers are that far away then they are out of range of the usual garage door opener.

 

The fixed code modules have 3^8 unique code settings, which you have to set manually in the workshop, there are also code learning units and code hopping devices. If you buy a fixed code module they all come uncoded and the same so distance is your only security against another controller operating your cues, so reset the code to something else - same on transmitter and receiver.

 

A firing system based on the Chinese boards can be perfectly usable and secure, and can be finished for under £/$50. NOTHING else comes close.

 

Better systems have better coding and transmission security also some have handshaking between modules, and some have remote continuity readout. However these usually cost hugely more money.

[Mumbles]

Arthur has a good point. If you're firing somewhere within range of a garage door opener or RC device, you have more issues than just an unsecure system. I don't know about yours, but my garage door opener barely works from 15 feet away. The unit shouldn't even be on until just before you're ready to fire anyway.

[Peret]

Mike_au's suggestion has its advantages, though. Xbees (Zigbee system) are much more than a simple transmitter and receiver. These devices become a self-configuring mesh network, where every node has the ability to both listen and talk to every other. Imagine a wireless firing system where you could remotely check the continuity of the matches and get positive confirmation that a particular cue had fired. Simple wireless can't do that. You might say that's not enough of an advantage to be worth the trouble, but hey, back when all we had were calculators, most people couldn't see much use for personal computers. It's only when you possess a technology that you start to apply it, and then you wonder how you did without it.

 

I don't share FrankRizzo's confidence in the security of simple systems, either. It may be adequate most of the time and fairly proof against accidental operation, but these simple receivers can be overloaded by a strong out of band signal and go into "undefined states", as they say in the data sheets. If you don't mind that your finale may accidentally be fired by a passing trucker using a CB with a 200 watt linear amplifier, go for it. (I spent some time in the past in Safety and Arming systems, aka weapons fuses. It was my job to worry about such things.)

[mike_au]

Xbees (Zigbee system) are much more than a simple transmitter and receiver. These devices become a self-configuring mesh network

This depends on the firmware and device setup. In my case I am using them in a simple point to multipoint setup.

 

your finale may accidentally be fired by a passing trucker using a CB

 

A CB or HAM is probably a better example than a garage door opener (although my keyless entry fob will work from a good 100m when it has a fresh battery in it <edit> and I suspect that it could produce interference from a fair bit further</edit>). My point is that the simple encoding they use doesn't provide enough security IMHO. Yes they have 3^8 codes or what ever, and even though these radios are all over the place interference is quite rare, but it isn't unheard off. I have had a doorbell that just happened to come shipped with the same code as my next door neighbour, I have seen newpaper articles about a new radio installation messing with garage doors. It doesn't happen every day, but it does happen.

 

I understand that people are trying to keep it simple and cheap, but in that situation my advice would be to go with a wired system. Sure by being careful in other ways you can mitigate the risk but that still doesn't make it a good idea. Technically I could mill my black powder with iron media, by putting the mill a long way away and using remote start I am unlikely to be hurt by it, but I'm still not going to try it and I would recommend that other people don't either.

Edited September 3, 2010 by mike_au

[fredjr]

Check out this thread

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/1018-12-cue-remote-control-system/

[50AE]

Also, these chinese boards can be modded with selectable encoding:

 

http://www.pyrouniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?5885-Quick-Selectable-Wireless-Encoding.

Edited September 6, 2010 by 50AE

[Gottagotomoz]

So out of curiosity I picked up one of those emadeinchn receiver and transmitter sets. After about a month, it finally came today. It's just a basic one channel system. I have my 12 volt source all lined up, but going to a wireless system is a different animal for me. Especially being one who never really dabbled far out of basic circuitry (never had the need to) I'm baffled as to how this thing works. I've looked up as much as I can, but being an extreme noob to electronics, I can't figure it out. How do I go about connecting the e-match to the receiver? Sorry if this is a ridiculously easy question (hopefully it is!) but what am I missing here. Any help is always appreciated. Thanks.

 

P.S. I do not plan on doing anything past tinkering with this thing. I'm aware that these frequencies can be intercepted, and no I'm not willing to chance anything.

 

Here's a diagram of what it looks like.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Gottagotomoz

[Algenco]

So out of curiosity I picked up one of those emadeinchn receiver and transmitter sets. After about a month, it finally came today. It's just a basic one channel system. I have my 12 volt source all lined up, but going to a wireless system is a different animal for me. Especially being one who never really dabbled far out of basic circuitry (never had the need to) I'm baffled as to how this thing works. I've looked up as much as I can, but being an extreme noob to electronics, I can't figure it out. How do I go about connecting the e-match to the receiver? Sorry if this is a ridiculously easy question (hopefully it is!) but what am I missing here. Any help is always appreciated. Thanks.

 

P.S. I do not plan on doing anything past tinkering with this thing. I'm aware that these frequencies can be intercepted, and no I'm not willing to chance anything.

 

Here's a diagram of what it looks like.

 

 

1 wire to common, the other to NO

[Gottagotomoz]

That was actually the first thing I tried, but with no success. From the 12V battery I connect neg to the neg on the receiver and pos to pos. The LED glows red. The e-match to NO & Common. Hit the button on the transmitter, nothing. I just hear a click on the actual receiver. No glowing nichrome, nothing. What am I doing wrong? The battery is very capable of igniting nichrome, it's a 2000mAh 12 volt Tenergy rechargeable pack. Any explanations?

[trialuser]

I think you need to connect the battery to the receiver to power the receiver (+ and -ve).

You then need to connect, say, the neg from the battery to one lead of the ematch.

The pos from the battery to common.

The other lead from the ematch to the NO.

 

If this works you can tidy it a bit by linking the pos from the reciever to feed the common instead of a seperate wire from the battery.

Edited September 29, 2010 by trialuser

[Updup]

Unless you set on doing everything yourself, I'll post my plans for my own fireing system using a 12 channel remote system from goodluckbuy.com

 

More tomarrow, I'm tired and we are having a diner party [=

[Gottagotomoz]

I think you need to connect the battery to the receiver to power the receiver (+ and -ve).

You then need to connect, say, the neg from the battery to one lead of the ematch.

The pos from the battery to common.

The other lead from the ematch to the NO.

 

If this works you can tidy it a bit by linking the pos from the reciever to feed the common instead of a seperate wire from the battery.

 

 

Spot on! That was tedious work, but it did indeed work, thank you kindly

[50AE]

I guess I haven't shown my DIY 32 channel wireless system. It works great, madeINCH remote and receiver, 1,5km range with the default wire as antenna.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePemA6SBtxI

[Pyromaster]

It depends what you are up to. If you want to make series stuff and have substantial knowledge or willing to learn how to interface microcontrollers to a wireless radio I suggest you either look at http://www.cdt21.com/ radios or else go onto xbee modems in the 2.4Ghz range, now also available 868Mhz by http://www.digi.com . Which both are licence free in most of europe. If you are in USA they have even betetr options for you. Good luck with your system.

[Kenny]

I'm planing of making my own firing system and I'm thinking if it could be wireless. Do you have any idea at what frequency commercial transmitters work? And could it be possible to find any schematic. I really don't have money to buy myself a many-cue wireless system.

Edit: I have some schematics of PIC based remotes, but without knowing the frequency it serves me nothing.

 

One problem,

When you do this don't use a common frequency.If you do an outside source may interfere as you are hooking up the system and ignite every firework you hooked it up to.

[BDfX911]

I guess I haven't shown my DIY 32 channel wireless system. It works great, madeINCH remote and receiver, 1,5km range with the default wire as antenna.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ePemA6SBtxI

 

Hey there, I like your system! Favorite part of the video is when you said "what amazes me is the dog next door is not barking, he is piece of chit". Hillarious! Check out the system I built using a beta board from rFremotech. This design is loosely based on a design from a highly respected and well know member of PyroU. (I will formerly credit him with his permission). I made some modifications to his design to suit my needs and time frame allotted for this project. The pic show the new beta board, my cobbed up diode LED boards, a SE300 case and faceplate from TRM. I intended to have the plate machined and engraved by TRM but my timeframe for this project would not allow. So I hand drilled all the holes and painted the board. I intend to make another 10 of this with various options once the beta board goes final. Mainly concentrating on using ODA compatible slats. Also check out the youtube videos I did of testing the beta board. Feel free to comment!

 

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q559/jhobbs23/Boards.jpg

 

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q559/jhobbs23/Wiring_Complete.jpg

 

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q559/jhobbs23/Exterior.jpg

 

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q559/jhobbs23/ODA_Connector.jpg