Exploding Targets

[FlaMtnBkr]

There are a lot of exploding target companies these days. Not sure how much the market can handle and how much longer they will be legal. Just saying...I know you didn't ask.

 

Smoke by itself can be pretty hard to get to burn right as it is. I don't think you will ever get it to do what you are thinking. A smoke that is lit by a bullet might be feasible.

 

I do have an idea for something that would work and actually can't believe I haven't thought of it before since I shoot them a lot as well. But the second it is discussed on this forum it can no longer be patented. And the second you came out with it, every other company would follow suit because there would be nothing stopping them.

[Cole]

I actually was just going to start selling locally to gun stores around me since we have relations with a few stores that sell our holsters. I thought about getting a patent once I figured out what I need exactly but not sure if it would stop people anyway. Could you PM me any ideas you have?

[Cole]

It seems like the explodong target industry is kinda like the Wild West but I have applied for my ATF type 20 permit. I'm also wondering opinions on using Blue Aluminium. Is it the same results when shot at with a high cal rifle ? Thanks

[FlaMtnBkr]

You don't need special 'Blue' aluminum though it should work. It wouldn't be more safe like with flash.

 

I use cheap surplus spherical aluminum and not expensive dark aluminum and a .223 pops them every time. Only time they don't work is if they absorb too much water.

 

I'm going to try my idea later today. I will let you know if it works or not.

[Cole]

Any luck?

[FlaMtnBkr]

No, it rained non stop until I had to leave. I should be back where I can shoot them this weekend so hopefully then. To close to neighbors right now.

[mzman1968]

Sorry to raise the dead again but I have used something from here and have some questions and can also give you some details on results.

 

Although I am new to registering here, I have been researching stuff here for awhile. I am no expert by any means and it is why I have some questions to be sure this is as safe as it has seemed to be so for.

 

I have been using the recipe WSM posted at the beginning of this thread. It is as follows;

 

4 potassium perchlorate

1 antimony sulfide

1 black aluminum

 

I actually used antimony tri-sulfide and first I am wondering if he meant sulfide or tri-sulfide and can anyone please tell me the difference between replacing one with the other?

 

I have read about how this is much more sensitive then a regular AN/AL mix and can someone please comment on how safe this combo is? I've read that mixing sulfur with chlorates isn't good. Does that include this mixture? I have mixed this in bags as large as a quart bag so I hope I haven't been messing around with the possibility of having a very big unplanned BOOM!

 

I used quite a bit of this along with every explosive target you can buy as well as making my own AN/AL. The mix above works very well for .22lr alone. I have also had 100% success making a small target made of this mixture placed in front of a larger mix of AN/AL and as long as you hit the perchlorate mix first, it will ignite the AN/AL mix behind it.

 

I've even done the triple combo; small perchlorate target in front of AN/AL target in front of 5 gallons gas can. AMAZING! in middle of dessert at night

[pyrojig]

There is a lot of gray area that the moderators have to be careful of when discussions about mix's that borderline H.E. .

So w/o going into crazy detail, i will explain a couple things.

 

The mix above is indeed a very effective and used mix for targets . Antimony tri-sulfide or sulfide are interchangeable, and pretty much considered the same thing .( like red iron oxide v.s. black iron oxide for example) .

Safety is a concern when dealing with large batches of these comps. The danger of friction and impact is high. Static can be another concern when mixing , so diaper method would be the safest if mixing any sizable amounts . Sulfur( if high purity like rubbermakers) will be fine as a antimony sub. . The dangers are about the same. These are not meant to be stored , but mixed and shot on site . If you want a big boom use the binary AN AL targets . Large batches of the 4-1-1 mix is not a safe thing . Because if anything does go wrong( premature ignition) , your almost guaranteed 100% mortality. Like you described above ,mixing large quantities of the chlorate mix in a zip lock gives me the willies. I dont have this fear with AN AL and have shot up to 10# targets of this mix. As far as the chlorate goes I have not dared to cross the 100g level due to too much sensitive comp in one place to handle . I have had the same success with these 4-1-1 targets setting off AN AL ones . Usually takes a fair amount to get the needed shock to detonate the AN Al ones.

[bubba153]

I have been using the recipe WSM posted at the beginning of this thread. It is as follows;

4 potassium perchlorate

1 antimony sulfide

1 black aluminum

Safety is a relative thing. What you are mixing is more sensitive than standard 70-30 mix. A full quart ziplock bag can hold a pound of composition. Take a look at

. The first explosion is one pound of unconfined 70-30. Now imagine what would happen if your static-generating bag full of your mix went up while you were mixing it. If the blast didn't dismember/kill you, the burns would make for a more painful lingering death.

I have mixed this in bags as large as a quart bag so I hope I haven't been messing around with the possibility of having a very big unplanned BOOM!

Considering 50 grams of good flash is capable of removing a hand/forearm, if not outright kill, and you are mixing much larger amounts of a sensitive mix, what do you think? You will only get one chance for that "unplanned" boom.

As an example of the power of this stuff, here is a video of a 48 gram batch of 70-30 in a snuff can (Copenhagen) attached to a large cardboard box and used as an exploding target (shot with a 22-250). Box disappears. Note the generous ground heave out away from the "target".

http://s947.photobucket.com/user/bubba153_photos/media/Reactive%20Target/DSCN0454-Clip2_zps40510518.mp4.html?sort=3&o=1

Now, consider a pound of that stuff going up in your lap!

[Sparx88]

It would be better as some have stated already to just get you a better boom stick so you can shoot the safer an/al. Would'nt it be a real bad day if someone where to get impatient with that and mix up some ultra sesitive mix and get hurt, and then think...hmm coulda just spent 400 hundred on a nice 270 instead.

[pyrojig]

One mix that is kinda fun , but a tad expensive was the CU-AL thermite . It was not as hot as flash, but did give a very showy fire effect and could be used to blow off a decent fireball if gas or other fuel where placed above the target. One thing I read a while back on the SM forum was a fellow had a strange effect by binding the CU thermite with NC lac and letting it dry. It was 1/4 thick and when lit or shot, it was very reactive . He assumes the reaction was the NC possibly going to DDT from the heat of the thermite. It may however be fluke or may have some valuer.

It might be on the touchy side of drifting into the HE realm , but at the same token , may provide a bound mixture that can be safer in solid form than a reactive thermite powder.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I assume you know that is flash powder. And it is more sensitive than standard 70/30 flash. So all the tons of warnings about flash apply to your mix.

 

I like AN/AL just fine. Its cheap, safe, and gives a great deep boom.

 

And I always thought antimony sulphide and trisulphide were exactly the same thing. Just different naming conventions.

[Shadowcat1969]

And I always thought antimony sulphide and trisulphide were exactly the same thing. Just different naming conventions.

 

That was also my understanding. At least with Pyrotechnic compositions, when either is called for I was told to grab the Antimony Trisulfide, that it is the same thing. Although Dark Pyro or Chinese Needle may be specified.

[Mumbles]

As far as pyro goes Antimony Sulfide and Antimony Trisulfide are the same thing. There is another kind of interesting compound that contains a non-stoichiometric amount of sulfur, but that is orange/yellow, so you'd know it if you got it.

[BurritoBandito]

...One thing I read a while back on the SM forum was a fellow had a strange effect by binding the CU thermite with NC lac and letting it dry. It was 1/4 thick and when lit or shot, it was very reactive . He assumes the reaction was the NC possibly going to DDT from the heat of the thermite. It may however be fluke or may have some valuer.

 

IIRC, this was Yamato71? His name always stands out to me every since reading "life after detonation", which advise anyone with an interest in HE to read.

 

Edit: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22554

Edited February 12, 2014 by BurritoBandito

[pyrojig]

@ burritobandit: Not sure if it was him, it could have been.

 

@ Flamtnbkr: I am aware this mix is sensitive more so than standard flash. I believe its a very energetic thermite that displays flash-like qualities. I too like the simplicity, safety , cost , and kick ass deep boom AN AL gives it is a win win on both sides . It is less of a fire hazard as well. The other mixs put out quit a bit of fire when they pop.

I am intrigued about a NC bound thermite having some more energetic qualities , but wont go into too much detail on this thread (where it gets into the HE side of things) .

[FlaMtnBkr]

Hi pyrojig.

 

I actually didn't see your post and was directing that at the fellow making flash with antimony. You are right that your mix is thermite. I have played with it and never got a very good boom. But it did ignite and sometimes you dont want a bunch of noise. The brown smoke is enough to let you know you had a hit.

[concreteman]

I've never had any luck with detonating an AN mixture with any formulation of flash.

[BurritoBandito]

@Concreteman: That is because flash isn't a primary, and I presume what you're describing is not an explosive target. please refrain from HE discussion outside of the HE forum. You can PM mumbles to request access. Thanks in advance.

[HissingRDX]

Out of curiosity, approximately how loud is 5kg Ammonal? (AN:Al at 90:10) and what is the minimum distance recommended from shooting a charge of this size? How far away could it be heard? Assume flat ground with little or no trees.

[Jakenbake]

Why 10% AL? What are you trying to accomplish with 11 pounds that you can't do with a few ounces?

[FlaMtnBkr]

That it's no longer an exploding target but a b#mb. I would imagine that depending on wind and atmospheric conditions it could be heard 10 miles away. Maybe even double that if you do it right. At that far distance it might not be audible, but I bet it at least rattles some loose window panes.

[HissingRDX]

Interesting, so you think that it could be "felt" but not heard at a long distance.

[FlaMtnBkr]

We replaced a pane of glass with another But was more thin so it can rattle back and forth a mm or so. Several times a week it shakes back and forth for about 6 second. I believe the source is a lime rock quarry where they blast it loose and its about 20 miles away. I'm sure closer and it can be heard.

 

Every year there is a national top fuel race and the track is about 30 miles away. If the air is cold and thin and the wind blowing our direction, you can hear the dragsters like you were in the back of the track parking lot.

[Bobosan]

When they practiced live on the tank range at Ft Knox, the windows would rattle when the weather and ground conditions were just right. The ranges are 50 miles from here and on other side of the Ohio river. No noise produced except for an occasional very low rumble.