redviper Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Ammonium nitrate provides both ammonia and nitrate. One is a reduced nitrogen form, and the other is an oxidized nitrogen form. Plants (and humans) need to use both. If you only supply one, it needs to spend energy to convert one to the other. Urea only produces ammonia. I know nothing about farming, but I suspect using a mix of potassium nitrate and urea together would be a better replacement than just one. im also interested in small exploding targets and will follow this and other post .
gregkdc1 Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I was told by the guy I buy fertilizer from that nitrates work better than amines in temperatures less than 70 degrees. This makes sense in the fact that most of the ammonia is converted to nitrate by bacteria in the soil and their metabolism speeds up with temp.
RegT Posted July 5, 2012 Posted July 5, 2012 I don't know how truthful this is but this guy claims to be doing almost exactly what you are saying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnpAUZsweEc . I question the validity of it because AN from cold packs is almost always damp and of low quality. Not to mention most of my targets that were made with fertilizer grade prill only partially detonated with a .30-06 round, sometimes you would get one that worked. After I dried and powdered the AN in a blender my targets work perfectly almost every time with a .30-06. I use the 95-5 ratio with 350 mesh bright flake aluminum. I have wanted to try some 22 sensitive targets as well but I am hesitant to make traditional flash in large quantities. I think next I will try some copper thermite for a .22 sensitive target. I can assure you that does indeed work, confined only in a ziplock bag rolled tightly. The prills I coated with 30 micron Al would reliably function with a .223 bullet. The potassium perchlorate and Al mix worked with a .22 LR (I mixed them in the same quantity as he indicated in the video). I did not try them both together as he indicated in his video, but I will at some time in the future. BTW, one of the Walgreens cold packs had a water pouch which had leaked. I dried out the AN in the oven at low heat and then crushed/ground the resultant mass by hand ( no ball mill or grinder available). I then mixed that coarse powder with Al, and confined it in a ziplock bag. That worked with a .223 as well. Perhaps atomized Al works better than flake Al, as I had no problems at all with the 30 micron atomized Al I was using.
pyrojig Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I can assure you that does indeed work, confined only in a ziplock bag rolled tightly. The prills I coated with 30 micron Al would reliably function with a .223 bullet. The potassium perchlorate and Al mix worked with a .22 LR (I mixed them in the same quantity as he indicated in the video). I did not try them both together as he indicated in his video, but I will at some time in the future. BTW, one of the Walgreens cold packs had a water pouch which had leaked. I dried out the AN in the oven at low heat and then crushed/ground the resultant mass by hand ( no ball mill or grinder available). I then mixed that coarse powder with Al, and confined it in a ziplock bag. That worked with a .223 as well. Perhaps atomized Al works better than flake Al, as I had no problems at all with the 30 micron atomized Al I was using. Flake will always be more reactive than atomized. The less sensitive or impure the AN the more the need for reactive AL. Pure AN will go off with atomized AL and less reactive grades .
CrossOut Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 has anyone found a safe way to sensitize AN / AL based exploding targets for use with a .22LR? Ive heard different ideas such as mixing in 70:30 flash or adding ethylene glycol and working however i cant find any resources on the subject. was wondering if any of you had success with this?
pyrojig Posted October 14, 2012 Posted October 14, 2012 Most folks wont give formulations for potentially dangerous mixtures. It is one thing to deal with AL sensitized AN, but to make something that powerful reactive to a 22 ,is not what most will give open advise on. It is kind of a grey line, and borders being something in the HE thread. Some have claimed to have luck flash sensitizing the AN targets, but that is not particularly safe, because now you have a large ( sensitive) target. One fellow (Boomer shot) went through that adventure, and only a couple things where that reactive. Most bordered on the lines of HE's, and many folks frown on that., because it strays away from safety.
steelejones Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 HI Everyone, First post, was hoping for some advice. The site isnt allowing me to post a new topic so i wanted to reply in a thread that is valid to what asking. In regards to reactive targets and AN and AL mixture (dont care to get into the %'s and mixtures). My question is what could I add to the mix to give it color (Red, Blue) on the explosion that wouldnt bother the sensitivity of the mix.. Any suggestions ?
AirCowPeacock Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) Colored flash is really hard. Good luck. I doubt you will have any success using Ammonium nitrate and Aluminium for that. Try Ammonium perchlorate and Magnesium for starters, then add maybe some Barium chlorate or Strontium nitrate for color. Above mixture is Really dangerous and probably shouldn't be done at all. Edited October 26, 2012 by AirCowPeacock
steelejones Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Yeah Im not interested at all in making anything dangerous. Was hoping there was maybe an easy solution for a colored smoke/flash on the reaction. Thanks for your advice AirCow, like i said im not looking for anything that would make it dangerous. Was considering on if there was something that could be added to the mix for that reason but not change any of the properties or not change them much.
WonderBoy Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 How about something like this: http://wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/daylightshells.htmlI'm picturing a bag or bucket of chalk with the target under or inside the chalk. WB
taiwanluthiers Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 any ammonium compound and a chlorate is extremely dangerous. Under no circumstances should you ever do that. It is even more dangerous than chlorate and sulfur.
pyrojig Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 How about something like this: http://wichitabuggyw...ightshells.htmlI'm picturing a bag or bucket of chalk with the target under or inside the chalk. WB LOL, you said exactly what I was thinking !! That is a very good suggestion. Chalk used for snapping lines is used in daytime shells with great results . It could be placed ( the chalk baggy) on or next to the target for a very nice colored smoke cloud w/o adding any dangers to the target mix.
AirCowPeacock Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) The chalk baggy is a sweet idea! any ammonium compound and a chlorate is extremely dangerous. Under no circumstances should you ever do that. It is even more dangerous than chlorate and sulfur. I am certainly not suggesting anyone mix ammonim compounds and chlorates; but wont it take some time (atleast a few hours) for any considerable quantity of Ammonium chlorate to form? And as such could perhaps be mixed on site safely? Don't take my word for it... Edited October 27, 2012 by AirCowPeacock
Excal Posted November 12, 2012 Posted November 12, 2012 Star Targets just came out recently with a 22 rimfire target kit,,and they work quite well. Hit them with a low speed Remington CBee.http://www.startargets.com I have used there 1/2 lb and 3 lb high caliber targets with my Savage 22-250 Predator,,nice little pop.
eodtoad Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) I'm new to this site and I certainly know what HE is, but what does "HE Qualified" signify? I noticed this under FlaMtnBkr's profile.Thanks. Edited March 17, 2013 by eodtoad
mikeee Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 You need to send a message to the site administrator and explain your interest in HE.They try to limit access to individuals that have a legitimate interest in the topic.
pyrojig Posted March 18, 2013 Posted March 18, 2013 A lot of the time it is a individual who works in the industry, and or is able to speak intelligently on the matter. This is designed to keep knewls and kids out of the topic area. It is a touchy subject, where admin. needs to see your not some trouble maker, or troll only after the booms. Not likely to get access for a while or ever, if your not one able to show these qualities .
Rebhead Posted April 13, 2013 Posted April 13, 2013 Hi all, first post, on a very old thread, but all the same- I enjoy reading up on this stuff. I was just curious since there is such a big debacle about 'over sensitizing' mixtures- why not look at it the other way, making a sensitive but still relatively stable mixture, and then altering the ammo. I haven't done this, so it's just speculation, but using incendiary 22lr- like stuffing the hollowpoint with armstrongs, flint tips, etc. Several compositions are 22 sensitive with a steel backing- so why not divert needing the steel to melt the lead, by just making the round a heat source to begin with? Feel free to shoot down or what not. Just trying to think outside the box instead of being stuck on trying to make a mixture sensitive enough to go off from a fart but safe enough to make in the first place.
bubba153 Posted April 13, 2013 Posted April 13, 2013 I haven't done this, so it's just speculation, but using incendiary 22lr- like stuffing the hollowpoint with armstrongs, flint You're worried about making overly sensitive reactive target mix, but talk about stuffing Armstrong's into hollowpoints??? Uhh, I fail to see the logic here. Might want to re-think this idea, or any idea involving Armstrong's mix, especially if you don't have LOTS of experience (and most with experience will steer well clear of Armstong's as well). Simple 70/30 seems to work for most with rimfires. Others use copper thermite with success. If you'll stick with .223 and above, almost anything will work, and the safety of AN/AL makes it worth using high velocity, IMO. Lower velocity projectiles require more sensitive mixes, thus lowering the safety margin.
Rebhead Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 Armstrong's is an example of what I'm referring to- not the solution. 70/30 could be fine. Not to start an argument, but I feel like the point was mixed completely. There's so many people trying to make a compound 22 sensitive, and creating problems, because then the mixture is unsafe. So instead, keep the mixture safe, in all relativity, and focus more on the make up of the 22- ie. making it incendiary. If the difference between ball ammo and hp/wadcutters etc, can be the determining factor in effectiveness, then adding a little 'oomph' to the round could be just what it takes to take it up one more notch. More curious if anyone has tried this on mixtures that would otherwise not be quite 22 sensitive. The whole point being keeping the safety margin lowered, and not creating pounds of hyper-sensitive mixtures. I haven't read or heard of anyone bothering. Please look at the point and not get lost nitpicking the grammar of the idea.
pyroshell Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 If you are looking for a rim fire sensitive mix you have a few “safe” options. First off .17 HMR can and has detonated a simple AN:AL mix.It is hard to get a mix much safer then standard AN:AL. Your next option (also a less safe option) Is plain old 70/30 flash. It is good for small effects, but if it does not deliver the punch you need you can climb down the safety latter to our next less safe potentially deadly option. 70/30 flash used to initiate the AN:AL main charge. It works... but if any more detail is needed you most likely should not be attempting it. Also that option may not be as legal, you should look into it first before attempting. Stay safe.PS: know you limits too much can be a very bad thing.350 grams of AN:AL should be safe at 29 meters. That quantity at that distance should be about 100 decibels.
Rebhead Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 I'm in AZ, and I'm not into doing the stupid youtube crap. I put it in spent 12ga shells, spread them out standing up at 75ft and plink. Just enjoy a little more reaction than it tipping over. Flash alone has been okay, but now I want a little more of an audible to go with it. Hence my queries. And yes, I have thought about putting flash and AN:AL in two seperate sealed containers, and shooting through them both, to create a secondary reaction. Just interested in other ideas.
Jakenbake Posted June 16, 2013 Posted June 16, 2013 I have shot my AN:AL with my 308 and 223. But i was not aware that the shock wave from 70:30 would set of AN:AL. For the rimfire targets I use about a gram of 70:30 with a pinch of steel grindings. That makes a nice report.
Cole Posted July 13, 2013 Posted July 13, 2013 I am interested in starting a exploding target company. I have been making them for awhile but am interested in setting us apart from the other binary target makers. Does anyone know what I would need to include in my catalyst to have colored smoke? I prefer a orange or green smoke. Something that stands out!? Thanks and great information on this forum
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