pyrojig Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 If it is a AN based exploding target, what is going to make it any more potent than any of the other brands on the market? In my experience, even the type of aluminum has no effect on strength, only on whether it detonates or not. Edit: I also don't think AN is any more hard to get than it was. These companies popping up are buying fertilizer. I can buy it at 3 different local stores, all new stock, with nothing to sign. It's also cheaper than it was a few years ago for some reason. Not to sound skeptical but are you sure your speaking of prilled AN ? Not some other fertilizer? It seems like a PITA to find a cheap source these days . So if you have one consider yourself lucky.
FlaMtnBkr Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Not to sound skeptical but are you sure your speaking of prilled AN ? Not some other fertilizer? It seems like a PITA to find a cheap source these days . So if you have one consider yourself lucky. Yes it is prilled ammonium nitrate. Says it right on the front of the bag. There is some agriculture around here but is not a little farming community. The main feed and seed stores all carry it so I just can't imagine its that hard to get if it is something they want to carry. There is another store that doesn't have a WATER suppression system so aren't allowed to carry AN because of some lady with the county. They got a special mix that is prilled AN with some sulfur mixed in to change the numbers so they can carry it. It works fine and is even cheaper. Edited April 13, 2012 by FlaMtnBkr
gregkdc1 Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 If you got a place that still has regular AN you should buy it up without provoking suspicion. They guy that I usually buy it from says he can now only sale it to people who have explosive permits because a of homeland security. However He can still sale you calcium ammonium nitrate that has had CaCO3 added to it to make it less reactive, I don’t know if it works for exploding targets. Of course you could always buy the Ca/AN and purify it if it doesn't. I am hoping that it does work and the reason AN is cheaper now is because it has been cut with chalk? Anybody try this?
FlaMtnBkr Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 So even though there have been no new laws passed that limits the sale of AN, everyone thinks it is going the way of the dodo? I'm really curious here. I'm told that pure AN is one of the few fertilizers that can be used in a watering system like a big center pivot, because it dissolves so easily and won't clog the system. And that is one reason it will be hard to get rid of. How many farmers have you heard or read about with explosives permits? Guess I might go get 10 bags or so as now yall are making me paranoid.
Potassiumchlorate Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) So even though there have been no new laws passed that limits the sale of AN, everyone thinks it is going the way of the dodo? I'm really curious here. I'm told that pure AN is one of the few fertilizers that can be used in a watering system like a big center pivot, because it dissolves so easily and won't clog the system. And that is one reason it will be hard to get rid of. How many farmers have you heard or read about with explosives permits? Guess I might go get 10 bags or so as now yall are making me paranoid. In my country farmers don't need a special permit to buy AN. They have to prove that they are farmers, though. This has been the case almost since the Oklahoma City bomb. It was actually some asshole in a newspaper who made an article about it, so they restricted it. I hate cowardly journalists who push the politicians to infringe on freedom. Edited April 13, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate
NightHawkInLight Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 FMB, you can still get AN, it's just harder to find. Even though there have been no new laws regarding it recently, there has been regulation on the books for several years now that would allow heavy government regulation and monitoring of sales. The regulation simply has not been fully enforced. So, in reality, AN could become impossible to obtain tomorrow with no change in the law. Or it could go on like this for many more years.
Algenco Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 last year the fert supply had to have a copy of my Drivers license before I could purchase AN. In the Fall they told me the Feds were pressuring suppliers not to carry it and farmers would be forced to use Urea.They are/were one of the few remaining fert Co that still bagged it, it's no even available in bulk mow
dagabu Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 last year the fert supply had to have a copy of my Drivers license before I could purchase AN. In the Fall they told me the Feds were pressuring suppliers not to carry it and farmers would be forced to use Urea.They are/were one of the few remaining fert Co that still bagged it, it's no even available in bulk mow Yup, Urea only for all three of our suppliers as well. -dag
FlaMtnBkr Posted April 13, 2012 Posted April 13, 2012 So who wants to buy some Ammonium nitrate? How many bags come on a pallet? I just bought 12 bags of greenhouse grade Haifa KNO3 before prices go up on it. Guess I need to do the same with the AN as this is the time of year to do it.
Mumbles Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 40 bags per pallet usually to yield either an imperial or metric ton.
pyrojig Posted April 14, 2012 Posted April 14, 2012 You may want to be careful about obtaining large quantities w/o proving a need. This will bring about the wrong kind of attention. Also I know your above statement was just for fun, but selling to the wrong person may bring even more trouble. Fool's are known to "rat out" others in a desperate attempt to save their own ass. Otherwise I would say go for it , but think it through about how your going about. It may become unobtainable as stated above.
Wifeaggro Posted April 16, 2012 Posted April 16, 2012 First, I'd like to say that this thread was a very interesting read. Question 1: Can any of you (who are able to obtain AN (fertilizer)) provide me with some brand names? Every local option seems to have gone to Urea, but I'd like to hit up my local farmers/horse traders and see what they can find. I have plenty of large farms around me; so in theory this shouldn't be difficult. Question 2: What would be my cheapest option for .22 LR sensitive targets? I'd like to buy what I can in bulk, for upcoming events.
pyrojig Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 First, I'd like to say that this thread was a very interesting read. Question 1: Can any of you (who are able to obtain AN (fertilizer)) provide me with some brand names? Every local option seems to have gone to Urea, but I'd like to hit up my local farmers/horse traders and see what they can find. I have plenty of large farms around me; so in theory this shouldn't be difficult. Question 2: What would be my cheapest option for .22 LR sensitive targets? I'd like to buy what I can in bulk, for upcoming events. Dont take this wrong, but we do not spoon feed around here . Your going to have to do your research. There is plenty of info in patents for shooting targets etc . AS far as name brands, your gonna have to see what is available to your local area.
Wifeaggro Posted April 17, 2012 Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) I'm mainly interested in the brand information just for reference. For my second question I really meant to ask for opinions as to which formula would be cheaper overall. I'm not looking for links to products. Im assuming this was due to poor wording on my part and I hope that clears up any appearance of laziness. It may be that I've become too familiar with tech communities where people are willing to share information they've gathered. Edited April 17, 2012 by Wifeaggro
pyrojig Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 I'm mainly interested in the brand information just for reference. For my second question I really meant to ask for opinions as to which formula would be cheaper overall. I'm not looking for links to products. Im assuming this was due to poor wording on my part and I hope that clears up any appearance of laziness. It may be that I've become too familiar with tech communities where people are willing to share information they've gathered. Trust me we LOVE sharing info and other great pyro related things . We ARE selective about what things we share when it gets into the gray areas or H.E. related topics.
Wifeaggro Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 So the information I requested hits too close to H.E.? I don't follow the logic on that considering this entire thread exists... But hey, I'm new here. I'll just stick with lurking from here on out. Disregard my posts.
oldguy Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) You are new here & pyrojig is telling it like it is. In that the old hands are mostly a cautious bunch & don't want who we may perceive as novices to end up needing a hook or prosthesis where their hand or arm used to be. Watch this video (if you have a stout stomach) to see how nasty ignorance or mistakes can be. http://www.amateurpy...h__1#entry94051 Edited April 18, 2012 by oldguy
Wifeaggro Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 While I appreciate the concern for my safety, I have to point out that the OP registered his account 5 days before starting this thread and you have children with access to the HE thread (basing that off previous comments they've made regarding their age and videos posted as well). I'm not following the standards here. New to this community does not mean that one is new to life... I thought I could drop in and ask for some information from more experienced individuals and I see that I was mistaken. I'll gladly move on.
Mumbles Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 This is just one of those particular topics that tends to garner a little more caution than others with what is said. Don't take it personally. I've always been torn on keeping this thread in the public section or not.
Wifeaggro Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 I understand the caution. The problem I have with the reaction was due to the lack of standards across the board. I registered an account to discuss information within this thread. I assumed any information within the past 6 pages would be fair game, as that's generally how topics work. My first question was geared toward AN, as that's where the discussion was at on the 14th. My second question, was regarding the information already provided within this topic. If your community isn't willing to discuss information within a public topic, I'd definitely suggest moving it. It's just confusing for anyone else. I honestly didn't take anything personally, I just thought the answer was ridiculous considering everything else I've read within many topics here. When I posted my original question, I was anticipating a step in the right direction and instead my first post was met with "we don't spoon feed people here...". I laughed after reading it and then immediately verified I'd joined the correct forum. Seriously though, let's stop breeding sarcasm/bitterness just because we can hind behind anonymity on the Internet.
oldguy Posted April 18, 2012 Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) I thought I could drop in and ask for some information from more experienced individuals and I see that I was mistaken. I'll gladly move on. I am in my mid 60's, a retired mining engineer, most of my adult life licensed to transport & use all sorts of HE. Over the span of that career, I utilized & detonated somewhere in the neighborhood of a mile long fright train of HE in all sorts of ways. Although I never knew how to manufacture what I used. When I first joined this forum, I asked a lot of questions related to the subject. Mark my words, the questions I asked were met with extremely cautious replies. Which was somewhat aggregating, coming from people often less than a 3rd or half my age, who never in their life pushed the button on 40K Lbs of HE, as I have. I took it with a grain of salt & hung around, paying my dues you might call it. Once some dues were paid, I gained sound knowledge to just about everything I inquired about. That's sort of how it works in all aspects of life. Just as Mumbles said, don't take it personal. The crew here is outstanding, once you get to know them. Join "passfire" if you want to see how fast newbie HE questions can get you instantly "flamed" into charcoal. Edited April 18, 2012 by oldguy
FlaMtnBkr Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 The only bag that I have that is still in the bag is "Red Fox" brand. The rest have been taken out of the bag and put into a sealed HDPE 5 gal bucket. I have bought AN quite a few times over the last 10 years and have never asked for anything other than Ammonium nitrate. It is 34-0-0 if that is of any help. Asking for it by brand would be similar to asking for a bag of flour by brand. Yeah they might recognize the brand name, but everyone will know what flour is. I don't know why, but have been told by a few farmers, as well as sellers of AN, that ammonium nitrate is much prefered to other high nitrate replacements like urea. I don't know if it works better or is easier to apply to a big field, but it is what the guys who use it like, from what I'm told. I still don't understand why it is so easy to find here but I won't complain. I still plan on buying a bunch for when it does get hard to find. I have some but exploding targets are fun and I would like to have some available for a while. It doesn't really matter how old the AN is, if you know the secret to good, loud, reliable targets.
Wifeaggro Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Thanks, I really didn't expect to find the same brands in my area, I was just hoping it would assist me in locating a local seller. I live right on the line of Alabama, Georgia, and Tennesee; so hopefully I've just overlooked some of my options.
Mumbles Posted April 19, 2012 Posted April 19, 2012 Ammonium nitrate provides both ammonia and nitrate. One is a reduced nitrogen form, and the other is an oxidized nitrogen form. Plants (and humans) need to use both. If you only supply one, it needs to spend energy to convert one to the other. Urea only produces ammonia. I know nothing about farming, but I suspect using a mix of potassium nitrate and urea together would be a better replacement than just one.
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