Need advice on what to use for a mini cannon.

[gera229]

The chemicals I have are potassium perchlorate with anticake and AL and non powdered charcoal.

I also have sugar and flour.

 

I want to make a mini cannon for a camping trip like it will serve for a purpose.

 

Otherwise, what can I mix so it will somewhat sound loud and produce a little more smoke than those mini cannons do that they sell on the pyro technique websites.

 

And in loud I don't mean like as loud as an m-80.

I will use a metal tube, what is a good one to use for safety?

A metal tube will be used, and hope the metal tube won't shatter in pieces which I will test.

Thank you.

[Mumbles]

I wouldn't use anything you have. You should buy or make some black powder. I would never trust anything with potassium perchlorate in metal. It has a very pressure dependent burn rate, and can easily get out of control.

[ropyro]

First of all, K perc with Al is Flash Powder, so no need to go in that direction anymore, it's deadly dangerous.

I've never used K perc and flour mix, so I can't make any advice...

As for sugar, I've once used a mix of 60/40 K chlorate and sugar in a .75 in cannon with a 1.5 mm thick wall and the cannon blew apart... To be honest, I think the K perchlorate with sugar will behave in a very similar matter, so do a few tests with remote firing. However, I used a powdered mix of the KClO3/Sugar and therefore I don't know how it could have behaved if granulated.

You could use an overfueled mix of KClO4 and Charcoal, say 50/50, but that will still be quite dangerous, since KClO4 is very reactive.

Anyway, I think that maximum care should be taken when testing such compositions with this purpose in mind!

Stay healthy and green!

[gera229]

Thing is I only have a day to do this, so I won't have time to make black powder. Maybe 2grams of flash in a metal tube that won't be closed, but will that be strong enough to blow it up? Thanks.

[gera229]

I wouldn't use anything you have. You should buy or make some black powder. I would never trust anything with potassium perchlorate in metal. It has a very pressure dependent burn rate, and can easily get out of control.

 

What do you mean by it has a pressure dependent burn rate?

And does it react with metal?

Sorry for the double post.

Thank you.

[Mumbles]

Don't use flash. Commercial flash pots, which generally use a slightly slower mix, are extremely thick. 1" diameter hole, and the whole thing is probably 4" across, so it has 1 1/2" walls. If you add flash to a metal tube, you are going to be simply making a pipe bomb much like ropyro.

 

I would just ditch the idea since you can't do it safely.

 

Many compositions burn differently under pressure, typically their burn speed increases. BP does this to some degree. Its why a 5g pile on the ground will poof, while when under a shell or in a break it will make a bigger pop or bang. Potassium perchlorate does this to an even greater degree. KP burst, which is like blackpowder with potassium perchlorate instead of the nitrate. On the ground it kind of fizzles, but when confined into a shell it breaks them pretty hard. Flash already burns pretty fast unconfined, imagine what it would do confined in a metal pipe.

[gera229]

Hopefully they don't react in metal, and thank you for the suggestion.

Since firecrackers can't break this kind of stuff I might just use as little as .5 or less flash, testing will be done.

If that does not generate enough smoke, I will use maybe some sugar or flour and hopefully they won't make it any more sensitive.

 

Now I need advice on perchlorate with charcoal. Will it produce smoke and will it explode?

I really haven't grinded any chemicals, so I really don't know how this can be done without using a grinding machine. Thanks.

Edited July 31, 2010 by gera229

[Mumbles]

Firecrackers have 0.05g of crappy flash powder.

 

I don't know why you're asking for advice if you're not going to heed it. Flash has no business being anywhere near metal pipes. Whether or not it works out, it's still very dangerous, and stupid to do.

 

If I were you, personally I'd forget about this all together. Since you have no intention of listening to that, try a 70:30 mixture of KClO4:charcoal, bury the pipe, and make sure anything you value is several hundred feet away.

[gera229]

KCLO4 Charc will work, but it won't be as powerful as flash correct? Thanks.

[Cookieman]

KCLO4 Charc will work, but it won't be as powerful as flash correct? Thanks.

 

 

gerra229,

 

Why do you persist on doing something thats an accident waiting to happen? As Mumbles told you you should not be putting any type of perchlorate flash in a metal tube period. It sounds to me your in a rush to do this and thats already your first mistake. Do yourself a favour and make some decent BP or buy some Geox and get yourself one of these and you'll be fine.

[inonickname]

I'm going to put this out here and say don't do it. Sounds like you want to use a piece of metal plumbing pipe like you'd buy from a shop. Don't. I make cannons, and I wouldn't be confident with that shitty, seamed tube even with average black powder, let alone flash.

 

1. Don't do it.

 

2. Buy black powder.

 

3. Machine or buy a proper flash pot.

 

It seems you don't entirely understand the forces many of these mixtures can produce. Just wait, and learn with the proper materials. Get your bangs a different way in the meantime.

[Fly]

Dued you come here ask these guy's what they think & it sounds like you plan is to use the flash anyway.

Let me tell you this.I have been shooting black powder guns for YEARS.

 

There is no way shape or form I would shoot it in any gun.IT IS NOT GUN POWDER, plan & simple.

Would you put TNT in a gun.FORGET it.

Fly

[dagabu]

KCLO4 Charc will work, but it won't be as powerful as flash correct? Thanks.

 

The difference between flash and BP for the most part is the brisiance vs. heaving ability of the powder you are using.

 

Flash has the ability to exceed the shear strength of metals easily while BP usually splits or "pushes" the metal open. It is the amount of time in which the explosion takes place over that determines the brisiance of the powder and while BP seems to take just nano seconds, *flash takes 1:100th the time to consume the mass then that of BP.

 

It is the speed of this consumption that makes it so dangerous. Think past what we are saying to you and think instead of the penalty that you will face if you use flash and the canon parts and the shrapnel hurts or damages someone/something.

 

BP canons are firearms, no debate is needed, it is spelled out clearly in the Orange book. Once you use flash in them, you now have and IED and can be charged with a federal crime under the Patriot Act.

 

It is my suggestion and our unanimous plea here to abandon your approach and focus on BP for this canon. Be warned though that you alone are responsible for what you decide.

 

*Perfect flash made with sensitizers.

[gera229]

I used a thick metal tube and put the flash in something then in the tube rather than putting bare flash in the tube. I got the barrel pretty wide so what ever I put in it isn't in contact with the tubes sides on the inside. I noticed the reaction time dramatically decreased if sugar is added and mixed with flash. Tested successfully and safely. I see that it is pretty powerful and dangerous, but this will be done out of range and with safety.

[dagabu]

Listen, its just plain stupid to do that. There is no "safe" combining pipe and flash.

 

Your subject was:

 

"Need advice on what to use for a mini cannon."

You are completely ignoring it and proceeding anyway? What help do you expect in the future?

[KruseMissile]

I agree with dagabu....

 

Cannons use BP. I have never heard of a cannon using flash other than a flash pot, which to me isn't a cannon. Stay away from flash till you have more experience.

[gera229]

I would have got BP if I could have, I agree with you guys that it is very dangerous to use FP; I did ask for advice, none helped, except I agree that BP is far safer for this but I had not time to get it, but thanks for it. Otherwise I don't want these replies to continue, the test was done with safety using a long fuse for me to have time to get out of range and get cover. This is for 1 time use only and if I need to do it another time I will be using BP, otherwise this topic can be closed. Thanks. Edited August 2, 2010 by gera229

[welder1074]

I have read all these posts, and it seems like this dude doesnt want to learn anything. Is it possible to learn enough just from reading to become a compent saftey minded tech? Or do I really need hands on training? How does a person really get into this hobby, because everything I read I am told how dangerous it is, from using flash to common BP. If all of it is VERY dangerous and I have a good chance of injuring myself or worse I dont know if I can even start this hobby. I would really hate that because I have always had a love for fireworks. Now to what I would really like advice on. I am a welder and I would like to make my own cannon for the 4th. I was thinking some thick walled pipe would work. Something in the range of 1 1/2" to 2" thickness? Is that strong enough not to explode? Or is it a bad idea from the start.

[Mumbles]

I'm glad you're willing to sacrifice safety for convenience.

 

I agree, it will be closed.