Ventsi Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I have the opportunity to turn a few wooden can shell formers on my grandfathers lathe, or if I can't do it, he will (talking 50 years of mastery here, has made some incredible things.) Anywho, I'm thinking cherry since its nice and hard, and a nice stain and a hard lacquer. But I have no idea of what dimensions to make them. I'm going for 2", 2.5" & 3". I know for the 3" one I need the former to be 2.5" and decided I should have it 5" long with a 5" handle. But can you guys help me out with the two smaller sizes? I left my notebook at home and can't remember what size formers I used before.
Algenco Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) The guy from Bangkok made his 8-9" in length check passfire, the guys name is Bangkok, he listed the dimensions Edited July 31, 2010 by Algenco
dagabu Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) Ventsi, Case Former Dimensions http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif Shell Size Diameter of Former Min Length of Former http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif http://www.passfire.com/images/clear.gif 3" 2-1/2" 7"4" 3-1/2" 9"5" 4-1/2" 11" 6" 5-1/2" 13" 8" 7-1/4" 16" Can you make me a set without the handles? Please drill a 1" hole all the way through please? Let me know the cost, I'm good for it. Edited July 31, 2010 by dagabu
Mumbles Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 For 2" shell I use a 1 3/4" former. These need a true 2" mortar, not the class C ones. For a 2.5" shell I really don't know. The only people I know who make 2 1/2" shells make ball shells. Somewhere between 2" and 2 1/4" but that probably isn't very helpful. Why not just make them to size with your end disks? I really hope you're not still hand cutting them with sissors. None of the major suppliers carry anything listed as suitable for 2 1/2" shells.
Ventsi Posted August 1, 2010 Author Posted August 1, 2010 Well I eneded up just making a 2" former, I make 2" cans the most so... it seemed logical I thought about it and I use to use a 1.5" ID pipe with about 1/16" walls so I just made it 1 5/8" thick, 5" long. I didn't make any more a for a few reasons, didn't have good wood that was big enough, and my grandpapy's lathe is just too old and was made for small souvener manufacture. Can you make me a set without the handles? Please drill a 1" hole all the way through please? Let me know the cost, I'm good for it. I'm sorry D but I'm afraid I can't, mostly because of the above, and I'd hate to ask my grandpops for more since I barely got him to make me this one. I'd try muself but I'd probably kill myself[its a hand lathe]. But I see why you'd want one, I see them sold for $40 for a 3" former and thats just insane! I still need to give it a few coats of polyuratane lacquer, but thats goign to have to wait till I get back to the states.
50AE Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 (edited) Normally I don't follow book standarts, I just estimate the width of the final product I need. I've never had classic formers though, I've used everything else: PVC pipes, pieces of mortars and tin cans.Don't forget to drill a time fuse hole and a vent hole. Some lathe safety tips: don't wear gloves and long shirts when working on a lathe. The worse that can happen is the lathe picking up your clothes and this will results in an horrible accident in a matter of seconds. Edited August 1, 2010 by 50AE
Arthur Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 For the few canister shell formers I have, I have searched ready made cylinders til I find those that suit. Aerosol cans, food tins, old bottles etc. will all do duty as case formers. Occasionally a fixed wrap of paper is needed to fine tune the sizes.
Ventsi Posted August 1, 2010 Author Posted August 1, 2010 For the few canister shell formers I have, I have searched ready made cylinders til I find those that suit. Aerosol cans, food tins, old bottles etc. will all do duty as case formers. Occasionally a fixed wrap of paper is needed to fine tune the sizes. Right, for my 2" cans I used my 1.5" comet pump, which is something like 1 5/8" OD, for my 2.5" cans I used something near 2" OD, for 3" cans I use my 2" paper mortars, so on.... I just wanted somehting pretty and meant for the use so I don't have to fiddle everytime I want to make a shell.
Pretty green flame Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 For the few canister shell formers I have, I have searched ready made cylinders til I find those that suit. Aerosol cans, food tins, old bottles etc. will all do duty as case formers. Occasionally a fixed wrap of paper is needed to fine tune the sizes. A proper wooden case former can't be replaced by some improvised formers. Anyone who is serious about making canister shells should have a proper case former made from hardwood. If nothing else, it makes you look atleast slightly professional.
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 If you have one (proper made caseformer) you'll know why you need one.
50AE Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 My 2" caseformer is a PVC pipe with a little paper wrapped and a plaster plug. The plaster is drilled to let place for the time fuse. It works very fine.
Ventsi Posted August 1, 2010 Author Posted August 1, 2010 it makes you look atleast slightly professional. Bingo! If not for anyone else to see it atleast boosts my inner ego.Anyway, can you guys recommend a good lacquer? My grandpops was saying that ones for yachts are very, very good but I don't want to buy more than a pint, less would be better. It'd be nice if it was in a spray can as well. Also, should I give the final product a coating in some polish? I see Ben(firesmith) coats his with carnuba wax.
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Dissolve some shellac in alcohol, this works great for coating, I believe rich wolter does the same.
Pretty green flame Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Anyway, can you guys recommend a good lacquer? My grandpops was saying that ones for yachts are very, very good but I don't want to buy more than a pint, less would be better. It'd be nice if it was in a spray can as well. Also, should I give the final product a coating in some polish? I see Ben(firesmith) coats his with carnuba wax. Any, clear, water based lacquer should be fine. Sand between coats and give it a final sanding with 600 grit sandpaper for a smooth finish.
Mumbles Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I can tell you that it's hard to go back once you have really nice formers. I have to admit that I still use rather primitive formers for most things. Most are HDPE mortars or wooden dowels of appropriate size.
shellbreak Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 (edited) Polyurathane laquer is pretty hard and makes a good finish on wooden items, acrylic is a lot softer Edited August 7, 2010 by shellbreak
Bangkokpyro Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 (edited) MODERATOR EDIT: Read the reply I made below. Edited August 8, 2010 by TheSidewinder Advertising as first post
TheSidewinder Posted August 8, 2010 Posted August 8, 2010 Bangkokpyro: Just so you're aware, posting an Advertisement as your first contribution to the forum is not only prohibited, on some forums it will get you banned. Since you offered something directly related to pyrotechnics, I didn't take the route of an immediate Ban. But I've removed the post content. If you wish to become a member of this community, and engage in any kind of commerce within it, you will have to contribute to its content for a while before being allowed to offer products. And when you do, it must be done through The Agora.
Bangkokpyro Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Bangkokpyro: Just so you're aware, posting an Advertisement as your first contribution to the forum is not only prohibited, on some forums it will get you banned. Since you offered something directly related to pyrotechnics, I didn't take the route of an immediate Ban. But I've removed the post content. If you wish to become a member of this community, and engage in any kind of commerce within it, you will have to contribute to its content for a while before being allowed to offer products. And when you do, it must be done through The Agora. Yes I take your point, sorry I wasn't thinking.
pyrogeorge Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 can somebody tell me the typical length for canister shells?Is is the same as the case formers?For example a 3" canister must be 7" length?Or less?
NightHawkInLight Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 can somebody tell me the typical length for canister shells?Is is the same as the case formers?For example a 3" canister must be 7" length?Or less?There are some that say canister shells should be no taller than they are in diameter, particularly for use in multibreaks. For single breaks, I would say it doesn't matter for the most part how tall they are. For multibreaks, in my experience they can be slightly taller than the diameter, but it all depends on the contents of the shells, and how sturdy those contents will be when compacted. If a shell is filled with strong pumped comets stacked on top of each other like a brick wall, they're going to be pretty darn sturdy regardless of how tall the shell is. With something such as cut stars however, they don't sit on top of each other quite so firmly and therefore have less support to make a taller shell reliably strong.
dagabu Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Swisher recommends 1.5 max diameter on multibreaks. I make all of my singles 1.5 diameter and they work well.
pyrogeorge Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 1.5 diamater sounds ideal length.i will try this.thanks for your replies..
Bonny Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 With something such as cut stars however, they don't sit on top of each other quite so firmly and therefore have less support to make a taller shell reliably strong. I can attest to that. I had a 3" (2.5" ID) can filled with cut stars blow in the gun. It was about 5" tall. All of the cans filled with comets (same height) worked just fine.
Ralph Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 would using pulverone (Which also gives a nicer break) give you the structural integrity you need (its what I use and havent had problems) its probably better for 2 reasons 1 it doesn't have give so when pressure is allied your cut stars cant be pushed aside into the break area 2 it is somewhat of a solid column running up the middle of the shell which is unbending
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