Tiger Tail Stars Won't Light?

[pyroguy1960]

I made some stars in a rolling machine for 4" shells, the inner layer is a purple comp and the outer layer is tiger tail. I primed the stars with commercial 4FG and dextrin (which I've used in the past successfully).

 

I usually test my stars by just setting them on the ground and lighting them with a propane torch. The tiger tail however doesn't seem to want to light. When I take the torch to it, the prime layer burns and then it goes out. If I heat it enough with the torch eventually the inner purple layer catches and it burns, leaving the shell of the tiger tail intact, kinda like a gobstopper with the inside eaten out.

 

Anyway they've only been drying for about 2 days in the open air on a screen, but with all my other stars this has been sufficient enough to at least get them to light.

 

Here are my comps:

 

Inner Layer Purple:

potassium percholrate = 61

 

copper = 5

 

stontium = 8

 

parlon = 12

 

red gum = 9

 

dextrin = 5

 

 

 

Outer Tiger Tail:

KNO3 - 44

Air Float Charcoal - 44

Sulfur - 6

Dextrin - 6

 

Prime:

95 commercial 4FG

5 Dextrin

 

Any ideas?

[pyroguy1960]

almost forgot....water was the solvent used to activate the binder in all cases...

[Mumbles]

That is very odd. I'd put my money on the stars not being dry. Even though, it should at least smolder and eventually light with the torch on it. You remembered the KNO3 right?

[pyroguy1960]

You remembered the KNO3 right?

 

 

Lol, yea that would be just my luck right? spent a week working on these stars.....but yea I'm 99% sure because I remember it was a clumpy bag of pot. nitrate and I had to screen it....then I screened the sulfur, then I made a mess with the charcol...and finally dextrin...

[pyroguy1960]

Actually, I had some extra comp left over from that batch of tiger tail and I wetted it and pumped about 20 1/2 inch comets out of it to use a rising tails on the shells....just tested one of those with torch and it burned right up.

 

Maybe something about rolling the stars in a machine takes them longer to dry? I'm gonna test one with a star gun tonight and see if I get any different results....would really suck if they all blow blind...

[BJV]

Actually, I had some extra comp left over from that batch of tiger tail and I wetted it and pumped about 20 1/2 inch comets out of it to use a rising tails on the shells....just tested one of those with torch and it burned right up.

 

Maybe something about rolling the stars in a machine takes them longer to dry? I'm gonna test one with a star gun tonight and see if I get any different results....would really suck if they all blow blind...

 

Hi,

I have a question or two. Did you ball mill your tiger tail stars comp. and for how long? When you rolled the stars did you use 75% water and 25% alcohol?

When I mix up a batch of Chrysanthemum 8 I screen the comp and them ball mill it for 4hrs. and they do take a few day to dry. I roll them to about 1/2" unprimed. These stars for my 5" round shells.

When they dry I prime them, then they have to dry a few more days.

BJV

 

 

[pyroguy1960]

Hi,

I have a question or two. Did you ball mill your tiger tail stars comp. and for how long? When you rolled the stars did you use 75% water and 25% alcohol?

When I mix up a batch of Chrysanthemum 8 I screen the comp and them ball mill it for 4hrs. and they do take a few day to dry. I roll them to about 1/2" unprimed. These stars for my 5" round shells.

When they dry I prime them, then they have to dry a few more days.

BJV

 

I did not ball mill the comp at all, simply used fine mesh screens and then mixed them in a plastic bucket. Actuallly now that you mention it I did use 75% water and 25% isopropyl alcohol to active the binder. I also primed them right after I rolled them, I did not wait for them to dry.

[NightHawkInLight]

As others have said, they are likely not dry. I have had TT stars out in the sunlight every day for more than a week and they ended up not drying whatsoever until I put them in my drying box (toaster oven). Something about tigertail stars in particular seems to keep them damp far longer than other types of stars in high humidity-In my case anyway.

[pyroguy1960]

Direct sunlight and toaster ovens? I thought those were two big no-nos no?

[Mumbles]

I let my charcoal streamers dry in the shade/dark with a fan blowing over them for a few days. After maybe a week, I place them in the sun to finish them up. If they're pumped I can put them right into the drying box, but I like to give them a day or so with a fan first.

[pyroguy1960]

Ah...I was afraid to let the stuff dry in the direct sun....I had read somewhere that was dangerous....perhaps only with certain comps....but being a newbie, I don't know enough, so I always try to be as cautious as possible...

[NightHawkInLight]

Ah...I was afraid to let the stuff dry in the direct sun....I had read somewhere that was dangerous....perhaps only with certain comps....but being a newbie, I don't know enough, so I always try to be as cautious as possible...

Sunlight could potentially heat some compositions above safe levels, dry them too fast causing cracks, or the UV could cause problems, but I've never had trouble. A toaster oven is a bad idea in most circumstances. I have enough non flammable land to park the oven in the center and feel plenty comfortable if it were to burst into flames. Right near my fire pit. Were that to happen, I would simply unplug the extension cord and wait for the flames to die. Obviously that would not be a good plan indoors or in a dry area.

 

One of the better ideas I heard for drying stars came from a member here, though I don't remember who. That person would simply put them inside their vehicle parked in the sun. High air temperature with no dangerously hot heating element. Not sure I would trust doing that on nice leather, but I wouldn't think twice with an old beater.

[pyroguy1960]

Not sure I would trust doing that on nice leather, but I wouldn't think twice with an old beater.

 

Ha, yea I just got a brand new BMW, thinkin I don't want to load it up with explosives just yet.

 

I test fired some out of a star gun just now, no dice. I also test fired some silver > purple stars just to make sure my star gun works...and those fired up fine. I guess I'll let them sit for a few more days and try them again. Hope I don't have to toss the whole batch..Like an idiot I totally miscalculated the pasta I used for cores, so I ended up making like 300 of them

[Twotails]

I made a 2in by 3in comet made from TT to Blinding white/silver comp. its seems to still be drying, you may want to toss your stars in a box of Silica dessicant(HF has it at a 2.2lb box for about $5) and seal it in a bag, i had to do that with some of my stars, and some home made fuse.) im probably gonna end up tossing the TT comet in the silica after this post, then prime it(NC/BP slurry dusted with corse BP).

[Peret]

Tiger tails are reputed to take a long time to dry on account of the charcoal content, and unless the purple cores were well dried, that moisture too is making its way out through the TT. I normally dry stars on trays inside my backyard barbecue - unlit, of course. It's a nice fireproof well-ventilated box that reaches shade temperatures well over 100 at this time of year. If I'm in a hurry I move them out into open air and direct sunlight on the second day. Avoiding putting stars in direct sunlight is probably because UV decomposes chlorates, and the advice outlived the necessity.

[50AE]

1. Charcoal streamers should be ball milled like black powder.

2 Charcoal streamers take very long time to dry! The last time I made C8, the 1/2" stars needed a week and a half in a dry and dark place.

[Bonny]

As mentioned several times, they are likely still (very) wet. When you rolled them, were they all shiny with solvent/water? I've made cut TT stars that were waaay too wet, but after about a week they were fine.

I think if you overwet them, then they should be dried in open air (no fans/heat/sun etc...) for a day or so before using any other methods. They should then be OK to force dry.

What works very well for me to force remaining moisture out towarsd the end of the drying, is to put them in a ziploc bag and place that in the sun (no chlorates though) You will see the moisture collecting inside the bag. I do this with BP coated rice crispies that I seem to (routinely) over-wet.

[pyroguy1960]

I'm in no rush to use them anyway, I have them sitting on a screen in my garage, which is warm anyway this time of year. I'll give them another 7 days and try and shoot one. I'm waiting on other chemicals and supplies anyway to make the completed shells....

[pyroguy1960]

They were fairly wet and shiny when I applied the prime too....so I did probably use a little too much water... Edited July 30, 2010 by jms04081974

[Bonny]

They were fairly wet and shiny when I applied the prime too....so I did probably use a little too much water...

 

Did you apply the prime right after rolling? I dry my stars first then prime after they are dry, by re-wetting in the star roller. BP can form a crust that locks in the water if the stars aren't dry yet.

[pyroguy1960]

I did ya, applied it right after I rolled the TT....guess I won't be doing that again....

[Mumbles]

I advised him in adding the prime right away. I generally wait until the stars are dry first normally, but tigertail and charcoal streamers can generally be dusted and primed right away. They barely need to be primed as is.

 

I don't consider a fan to be force drying. I've never heard of stars getting driven in from air flow. I frequently use a fan to speed up drying of my stars. It's amazing how efficient good airflow dries stars without heat.

[pyroguy1960]

That's what I kinda find weird about this whole thing, cause the TT comp is basically a black powder recipe right? Just with a lot of extra charcoal....so you figure it would take fire fairly easily.....those comets I made from the same comp went up instantly.....

 

 

[Bonny]

I advised him in adding the prime right away. I generally wait until the stars are dry first normally, but tigertail and charcoal streamers can generally be dusted and primed right away. They barely need to be primed as is.

 

I don't consider a fan to be force drying. I've never heard of stars getting driven in from air flow. I frequently use a fan to speed up drying of my stars. It's amazing how efficient good airflow dries stars without heat.

 

I also have not heard of stars becoming driven in from a fan only, but do not personally use one. i dust all my (cut) BP/charcoal type stars right away too, and have never had any issues. Maybe with rolling, the density is higher, and they might tend to hold onto the water a bit more. I prime almost all of my rolled stars with a slurry, so I dry them first. I do prime my TT stars, but never used to and rarely had any ignition issues...

 

 

That's what I kinda find weird about this whole thing, cause the TT comp is basically a black powder recipe right? Just with a lot of extra charcoal....so you figure it would take fire fairly easily.....those comets I made from the same comp went up instantly.....

 

As discussed here, I think you must have made them VERY wet to cause such issues.

[pyroguy1960]

Well, they gotta dry out eventually I reckon....I'll try them again in 7 days and see...