watch lists etc

[pyrochris732]

I didnt find any other post concerning this so i figured id ask. Does anyone know the legal implications of ordering chemicals from sites? I know that they say that they do not share any of your info with outside parties unless you have been caught doing something naughty. I actually emailed one site about it.

 

But what i want to know is, is there some kind of authority out there that can track you or put you on a list when you order any of the pyrotechnic chemicals? I have been reading about the "no-fly list" and this really concerns the hell out of me. Basically you have no way of knowing if you are on the no fly list until you go to the airport. Not to mention, they will not notify you if you are placed on it. We all know the govt can basically do whatever they want and you have no control over it.

 

Does this concern any of you? Does anyone have any stories or know anything about being tracked or put on a no fly list just for ordering chems or pyrotechnic supplies?

 

Thanks,

 

chris

[hst45]

I don't personally know of anyone who has gotten into hot water for simply ordering legal products legally shipped from legal suppliers. The problem is that "probable cause" is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Imagine these two scenarios, on a different subject but still on point.

 

1) My 72 year old mother walks into a drugstore where she's shopped for the last 42 years. She has a runny nose. She purchases a pack of 12 Sudafed. She pays with her credit card.

 

2) A 35 year old dude wearing a Harley jacket walks into the same drugstore, buys 162 12-packs of Sudafed, and pays with a wad of $10.00 bills.

 

Who is likely to get a knock on the door from the DEA?

 

I can't advise you on legality, and State to State and Town to Town enforcement varies, but if you're acting like a reasonable hobbyist and not like an idiot you are much less likely to draw negative attention to yourself. I personally don't have a problem with ordering on-line from the legal suppliers who we all know. I do however try to remember that *if* the knock comes on the door one day, I'm going to be in much better shape if I'm in compliance with storage and labeling guidelines. That's no guarantee of anything, but it gives you some talking room with the powers that be. The bottom-line is that you have to be able to sleep at night, and if you're nervous err on the side of caution.

[pyrochris732]

well, whats being "an idiot?" Im talking strictly about being in possession of these chemicals. Im not speaking about flash powder or mixed chemicals.

 

More importantly, i want to know if anyone knows anything about no fly lists.

[dagabu]

well, whats being "an idiot?" Im talking strictly about being in possession of these chemicals. Im not speaking about flash powder or mixed chemicals.

 

More importantly, i want to know if anyone knows anything about no fly lists.

 

Yes, you are limited to a certain poundage of certain chemicals and you must keep oxidizers and fuels separate (12' is what I was told) so in the case of a spill, they will not mix. I suggest thet you go to Passfire and look for the thread on chemicals, storage and limits.

 

Frankly, if you get a visit, they will take what they see as directly related to the manufacture of explosives or what they deem as harmful. If you have a couple bags of KNO3 stored in the shed with your lawn stuff, they will not take it and if you have your Al stored with your paint gun and compressor, they will not take it either.

 

If you have 100# of AN sitting right next to a fuel oil can... well, I would get an attorney.

 

What is to know about the no-fly list? It's protected, you can't see it, it is national security and you will know if you are on it when you get an escort from the metal detectors to a little room where they can pull rendition on you if you are a known terrorist.

 

Can you speak Russian? If not, I would not be concerned at all, go make a rocket and shoot it off, you will feel better.

[Peret]

It's probably safe to assume that anyone who ever ordered chems online has their name on a government list somewhere, given how few suppliers there are and how easy it is to snoop on specific internet addresses. Whether it's a concern probably depends on whether those names get cross referenced with some other matter of interest to the authorities. Far more info is collected than there are agents to examine it, and they've all got more important things to do than worry about Joe's pound of barium chlorate, particularly since it's not illegal to buy or possess any of the chems we use. The CPSC had a go but they're ideologically against fireworks anyway, and they can only go after suppliers, not purchasers - if there was really any official concern the government would have set the ATF on the job.

 

As for the no-fly list, it's a worthless piece of security theater. The only reason it exists is that the gummint can coerce the airlines to enforce it for them, there are choke points at airports nobody can avoid, and it's profitable - the flying public is forced to pay for the inconvenience with a so-called "security surcharge". The degree of actual official interest can be deduced from the incredible number of names on it and how hard it is to get off. Clearly no more thought goes into it than typing names and pressing "enter", and if - as was demonstrated at Christmas - if someone on the list does make it onto a plane, nobody notices unless they do the very thing it was supposed to prevent.

</rant>

[mbnapier]

I wouldn't be concerned. I have been ordering chems for decades. I even have a state felony conviction for

"possession of a dangerous ordinance" from the 1980's. I am not very active here, but I am quite active in

pyro. I recently travelled to Brazil. I'm not on the no fly list, I didn't even get pulled for further scrutiny. Relax,

they aren't out to get you if you follow the rules.

[optimus]

I'd be more concerned about ordering from 'questionable' sites which also stock precursor chems.

 

I know I'm on a few lists but as mbnapier says, they're out to get the bad guys here. I do think it's always worth taking into consideration how your workshop would look if the 'men in black' turn up at your door though. Keeping things tidy and storing responsibly goes a long way.

[Twotails]

If you can realy get the chemicals you say(Bismuth) why not buy a few pounds, and sell them here?

 

But on track. I doubt anyones gonna bother you, I always try to order stuff the i can use out of pyro(not always happens, but eh, what can you do?) all my stuff is stored safly, all Ox are in a fireproof "flammables" cabinit, binders in my room with a few Non-hazardus chemicals, all acids have eather DRAIN CLEANER in black sharpy on them(or somthing) and stored out in the shed, ect.