madmax247 Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 I have made the normal whistle mix batch of potassium benzoate, potassium perchlorate and iron oxide. I then proceeded with the vaseline and solvent method of making it. I have finely sieved and dried the mix in the sun for a few days. HOWEVER when i press it very tightly (using a pivot technique) and try it, it only burns furiously but with no whistle whatsoever. What could have gone wrong?
dagabu Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 Tell me a little about how you grind your chems, how you combine them, the recipe you use. K-Benz whistle has the best whistle (my opinion) and will often yelp when lit in a very small heap.
Goofy Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 HOWEVER when i press it very tightly (using a pivot technique) and try it, it only burns furiously but with no whistle whatsoever. What could have gone wrong? I'd bet $ your Kbenz is not fine enough. Either that or you added more than 3% Vaseline/oil/wax. Both will kill the whistle but still give you a fierce burning mix.
ExplosiveCoek Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 I'm with Goofy, or your Kbenz is not fine enough (most likely) or you are not pressing the whistle mix hard enough.
Ralph Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 or could be that the mix isnt pressed enough I never could get any proper sound by hand pressing or even using a vice. not sure what a piviot technique is but that could be seriously affecting it pressed properly they have a crazy screatch
madmax247 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Posted July 4, 2010 It might well be the benz, although i did fully coffee grind it until it has a really light powder consistency (it fills the air like dust) so i dont know how finer it could get... It did make some sort of whistle periodically when pressed into a tube but mainly just fire. My friend brought his mix along and made the most amazing whistle so i used the pivot technique like he did which is like this: You basically take a piece of wood and at one end it fits underneath a concrete ledge (my garden steps for example) and put the tube and rammer in the middle and apply a strong downwards force at the other end of the wood.
Ventsi Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 Like a lever? I'm with Ralf, it might not be compacted enough, try a Hydraulic press if you can or something else, you need a LOT of pressure for whistles I had the same problem you did, but again you might want to make sure the KBenz AND KP are fine enough.
dagabu Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 Sorry guys, compaction has little to do with it, if it is not pressed hard enough, it CATOs. If it passes a 60 mesh screen, it's fine enough. Your KP may be bad or you may be using KNO3... its happened.
Ralph Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 Sorry guys, compaction has little to do with it, if it is not pressed hard enough, it CATOs. Not sure how you can explain how vice pressed whistle doesn't whistle were as press pressed whistle both from the same batch the vice pressed didn't whistle the press pressed whistle did these were small 1/4" whistles both pressed to half full just my experience that was the only variable I cant see anything that could have affected one but not the other
dagabu Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 Gosh Ralph, I'm out of my element here, I get CATOs when they are not pressed hard enough. Sorry
Ralph Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 (edited) you are probably dealing with cores and probably larger tubes there is probably a very fine line between no whistle and CATO, we are probably both equally correct Edited July 4, 2010 by Ralph
dagabu Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 you are probably dealing with cores and probably larger tubes there is probably a very fine line between no whistle and CATO, we are probably both equally correct True that!! I have 4.3" of spindle that gets an additional full two increments of fuel pressed to 9000 loading pounds (LP). I go a little heavy on the mineral oil (dont like petroleum jelly) to keep the power moderate so the rockets dont bolt off the rack and like to put Ti in the delay to get a nice tail. After all, who doesn't like some nice tail?
Ralph Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 got to love a nice tail I use paraffin oil I dont really like the idea of heating something (petroleum jelly) before mixing it into a sensitive pyro comp(thats just me). also my whistles are of the annoying insert/rising affect type I doubt they would fly particularly well
dagabu Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 got to love a nice tail I use paraffin oil I dont really like the idea of heating something (petroleum jelly) before mixing it into a sensitive pyro comp(thats just me). also my whistles are of the annoying insert/rising affect type I doubt they would fly particularly well End burners then? I shot a half dozen rockets last night to see if your glitter comp #1 was any good and I found that I like it much better then D-1 or most of the Wincor glitters.
madmax247 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Posted July 4, 2010 Im pretty sure im using perchlorate, big old zip bag dont lie Ill show u a few pictures and a video, the pressure from the lever technique is substantial enough as a friend did it in front of me (but using his mix) and it worked brilliantly!
Arthur Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 If his mix worked and yours didn't then it's not the technique it's the MIX that's the problem. Check everything, don't assume, prove it. Prove that it's perc, prove that it's benzoate etc.
AdmiralDonSnider Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 Could your chems be moist? Lancaster stresses the importance of dry whistle ingredients... Not very probable but possible.
madmax247 Posted July 4, 2010 Author Posted July 4, 2010 How would i prove it? I used the chemicals from the bags labelled "potassium perchlorate" and "sodium benzoate" and "Red Iron Oxide"...
Peret Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 How would i prove it? I used the chemicals from the bags labelled "potassium perchlorate" and "sodium benzoate" and "Red Iron Oxide"...I think Arthur's suggesting that you substitute each of them, one at a time, from a different batch. If it starts working when you use (for example) a different benz, there's your problem. Of course it does mean getting a bunch more chems from different suppliers, which may be impractical.
Ralph Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 End burners then? I shot a half dozen rockets last night to see if your glitter comp #1 was any good and I found that I like it much better then D-1 or most of the Wincor glitters.yeah they are end burning great fun rather interesting to put between visco and your quick match or just any ware in stuff. thanks How would i prove it? I used the chemicals from the bags labelled "potassium perchlorate" and "sodium benzoate" and "Red Iron Oxide"... have you dried out your sodium benzoate ? damp benz anint gona screem
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