Timed reports

[Cookieman]

Hi guys, I want to make some timed reports but am unsure on how to fuse them. eg, type of fusing, length of fusing between each report.Will it work in a 6" round shell because I ran out of canister ones.

 

 

Thanks, Cookieman

[dagabu]

Are you using the yellow cap plugs? If not, they are once again for sale from me (check the Agora). For a six incher, it sounds like you want tubes for timed reports so you can get bigger bangs. One word of caution though, if you use ball shells, you have no control over the reports. They will go everywhere.

 

Most timed reports I have seen come out of cylinder shells so that neat rings of reports are seen by the crowd. I shoot all of mine from rockets so I can better guess the angle of the ring for the best viewing.

 

http://pyrotechnics....rocket%2010.wmv

 

BTW-go grab a piece of PVC tube of the correct width and roll your own!! Its not hard to do, you need to learn to make them anyway right? Ill walk you through a small one (3") and you can go from there.

Edited June 18, 2010 by dagabu

[Cookieman]

Sounds good Dagabu! What I am using for my reports are the same paper tubes I'm using for my go getters. Its a 9/16" x 1 1/2 cardboard tube. I filled them with flash and coarse titanium. As far as the ball shell, your 100% right on that one, the last thing I want is a report going off low. Isn't the rule of thumb the size of the shell plus 100ft for altitude? I am using a six inch shell. So generally the shell should reach an altitude of 700ft?

[dagabu]

Yes, very true.... but

 

The shell goes off, is has, lets say 30 timed reports, if they are staggered over time like my shell in the video, you are just fine, one ring two rings, no problem. 1" of time fuse and you have three seconds to watch the last of them go off.

 

If you do a spiral like this one, VIDEO then you are going to have something to worry about. Keep all of the time fuse or spolettes down to three seconds and you will not have any ground bombs. Watch the bottom shot (yes, you can put one in a ball shell) as they sometimes go off 6-8 seconds after the shell breaks if you make the fuse too long.

 

I am not finished with this yet and it may have to wait until after summer but HERE is my tutorial for timed reports and canister shell building (just the inside and only one end disk). You will need to top fuse the shell if it is 6" and it will need to be made more robust with pulverone and well stacked inserts for it to survive the lift out of the gun.

Edited June 18, 2010 by dagabu

[Cookieman]

Yes, very true.... but

 

The shell goes off, is has, lets say 30 timed reports, if they are staggered over time like my shell in the video, you are just fine, one ring two rings, no problem. 1" of time fuse and you have three seconds to watch the last of them go off.

 

If you do a spiral like this one, VIDEO then you are going to have something to worry about. Keep all of the time fuse or spolettes down to three seconds and you will not have any ground bombs. Watch the bottom shot (yes, you can put one in a ball shell) as they sometimes go off 6-8 seconds after the shell breaks if you make the fuse too long.

 

I am not finished with this yet and it may have to wait until after summer but HERE is my tutorial for timed reports and canister shell building (just the inside and only one end disk). You will need to top fuse the shell if it is 6" and it will need to be made more robust with pulverone and well stacked inserts for it to survive the lift out of the gun.

 

This is a great tutorial, for now I will use just one ring and later 2 rings once I have more experience. I noticed that you used a six strand of blackmatch to prime your fuse. I don't know but it seems like overkill for priming. I would just dip the fuse in some N/C laquer and granulated BP. I use spolettes for my 6" shells and are timed to burst at 6 to 7 seconds. At what length should I cut my fuse for my first report to go off? There will be only 12 reports in the shell.

[dagabu]

Ahhh, grasshopper, snatch the pebble from my hand. Boot to the head!!

 

The only real way to find out about timing is to do it yourself, then you can have that "Ahh, haa" moment that we all get when we dont see the whole picture. In order to have tight timings, one has to light the time fuse all at exactly the same time. THIS is what happens when you use prime to make for good timing. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be a spiral.

 

Dipped prime is not going to give good timings, you need absolute consistency or you will get so-so, not "Damn!".

 

DAMN!

[Cookieman]

Ahhh, grasshopper, snatch the pebble from my hand. Boot to the head!!

 

The only real way to find out about timing is to do it yourself, then you can have that "Ahh, haa" moment that we all get when we dont see the whole picture. In order to have tight timings, one has to light the time fuse all at exactly the same time. THIS is what happens when you use prime to make for good timing. Keep in mind that this is supposed to be a spiral.

 

Dipped prime is not going to give good timings, you need absolute consistency or you will get so-so, not "Damn!".

 

DAMN!

 

 

I see what you mean on rocket 3, But Damn, that Damn was nice, a true piece of pyrotecknic art. Grasshopper has much to learn!!!

[dagabu]

Ah, grasshopper, I am still looking for my first DAMN! as well. Good luck and keep asking questions.

[TrueBluePyro]

If you want to have a look at mine, I use a different priming method and it lights everytime for me. http://truebluepyro.blogspot.com/

I use a bambo squewer and apply a very thin coat of NC on the time fuse.

Then I will dip the time fuse into some very fine mixture of small BP granuls, titanium and silicon.

This takes fire very easily.

 

I think this technique will offend the master!

[Cookieman]

If you want to have a look at mine, I use a different priming method and it lights everytime for me. http://truebluepyro.blogspot.com/

I use a bambo squewer and apply a very thin coat of NC on the time fuse.

Then I will dip the time fuse into some very fine mixture of small BP granuls, titanium and silicon.

This takes fire very easily.

 

I think this technique will offend the master!

 

 

If that 3" inch shell was the one that you made by dipping in N/C and BP granuals, then Dave is right about the priming. You have multiple reports going off at the same time.It doesn't look timed at all. I don't know what size inserts these guys are using, but it sounds pretty loud.I think I hear Ned yelling in the background.2009 PGI

[dagabu]

Naw! I did that too when I started this mess here but as shown in your video, the timing can vary a lot when using the dip prime method. Not that I have anything against doing it that way since I have a batch of timed reports drying right now that have prime only for fusing.

 

What I did differently was to use an upholstery needle to make a small hole in the dip prime to allow a channel for fire to flow down to the powder core so that the fire does not have to burn through the whole prime layer to the core. So far, the outcome has been good and I hope to launch a shell using this method this summer.

 

I will be using 6 strand BM for my class at PGI though. I want to stay as close to the masters way as I can there and then start variations.

 

I applaud all of you that work fireworks in the traditional ways and I applaud you that break with tradition even more.

Edited June 19, 2010 by dagabu

[TrueBluePyro]

If that 3" inch shell was the one that you made by dipping in N/C and BP granuals, then Dave is right about the priming. You have multiple reports going off at the same time.It doesn't look timed at all. I don't know what size inserts these guys are using, but it sounds pretty loud.I think I hear Ned yelling in the background.2009 PGI

 

 

Yes, some did go off early, that is only because I used hot glue to seal the time fuse in place which is a bad idea. Also I don't have any cutting jig, so I just lined up the timefuse on the rule and put a mark on it and than cut.

 

Also, I wanted the reports to go off at the same time in a 'ring'. I wasn't trying to make them go in a spiral if that is what your thinking.

Edited June 20, 2010 by TrueBluePyro

[dagabu]

If that 3" inch shell was the one that you made by dipping in N/C and BP granuals, then Dave is right about the priming. You have multiple reports going off at the same time.It doesn't look timed at all. I don't know what size inserts these guys are using, but it sounds pretty loud.I think I hear Ned yelling in the background.2009 PGI

 

I like this one better... 2009 PGI

 

I dont think that was Ned though, his voice is slightly higher. Those videos make me giggle though. Im sitting in a lawn-chair about 200' to the right in front of the rockets. There were several bottom shots that came real close to the ground but I cant remember one that bounced.

 

The shell you linked was a2 break 6", the inserts are all 1" salutes with a 6" bottom shot.

[Gunzway]

If that 3" inch shell was the one that you made by dipping in N/C and BP granuals, then Dave is right about the priming. You have multiple reports going off at the same time.It doesn't look timed at all.

 

What are you on? Although there are a few timing faults, it certainly looks timed. It's puzzling to me and no doubt others how on earth could you disagree and say it doesn't looked timed at all. Timed doesn't necessarily mean it has to go in a spiral... the word is self explanatory. It's a decent shell if you ask me, wonderful break and the red flash looks good.

 

Make sure you read up about flash preparation if you haven't already. These types of shells are inherently more dangerous than others.

[Ventsi]

I have had some very good success with priming the fuse, I still need to give the "master's" method a shot. Dave, do you think I can get away with just one strand BM? Unlike your flat-type stuff?

[dagabu]

Make sure you read up about flash preparation if you haven't already. These types of shells are inherently more dangerous than others.

 

The flash may be more sensitive when mixed but these shells (if you are speaking about the 3" timed reports I make) are actual much safer then any star shell. Before you become unhinged, let me tell you why I think that is true.

 

Each insert contains 1g of flash with Ti curlings. The flash is contained inside of a soft but strong cap plug and is sealed by a time fuse and super glue.

 

Only the mixing of the flash and filling the cap plugs is risky, once the shell is done, the risk is much less.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

I rather get a star in my face than a capplug with flash.

[dagabu]

I have had some very good success with priming the fuse, I still need to give the "master's" method a shot. Dave, do you think I can get away with just one strand BM? Unlike your flat-type stuff?

 

I have tried just about all the methods there are out there to see what lights and does not and I found that a single strand is not completely reliable but two strands are. The timing is the problem, I cant get the timing to be as good with two strands, dip priming or anything but the 6 strand black match.

 

Making the six strand BM is actually really easy, just take several feet of the smallest string you can find, must it into a small container of BP slurry and wind it around two nails, sprinkle some dry meal or meal-D on the still wet BM and let dry for a couple of days.

[dagabu]

I rather get a star in my face than a capplug with flash.

 

Then you have never been hit with a star. The danger of a low break is in getting hit by a star.

 

If you are hit with a small insert, it will not burn you, it will not *penetrate the skin. It will bounce off. Yes, you have the energy that is contained in the insert to deal with still but the actual strike is much less dangerous. Hand shooting racks gives you garbage hits all of the time, inserts, tubes, cardboard, paper quick match, ash and embers. Flowerpots are scary but really are harmless, a low break is what we all really fear.

 

*I have a real fireman's hat with leather neck shield, a thick Carhartt duck cloth hoodie jacket and matching overalls when I hand fire. I have been hit by low breaks of both star and insert variety and with proper protection, you should have no injury (not including bottom shots) and one should NEVER be looking at a rack when it fires. Your back should always be to the rack.

[Cookieman]

What are you on? Although there are a few timing faults, it certainly looks timed. It's puzzling to me and no doubt others how on earth could you disagree and say it doesn't looked timed at all. Timed doesn't necessarily mean it has to go in a spiral... the word is self explanatory. It's a decent shell if you ask me, wonderful break and the red flash looks good.

 

Make sure you read up about flash preparation if you haven't already. These types of shells are inherently more dangerous than others.

 

 

What am I on? you just contridicted yourself, you just said their are a few timing faults.If their are a few timing faults then they are not timed properly are they? As far as the flash goes thankyou for your concern as I've done my research a while back and have made flash powder many times in a safe manner, and to the point of which I feel comfortable with.

[Gunzway]

What am I on? you just contridicted yourself

 

Alright, time to give you an English lesson.

"What are you on? Although there are a few timing faults, it certainly looks timed."

So how exactly did I contradict myself? Indeed, there was a couple of inserts that went off at the incorrect time but it certainly looks timed. Regardless, the contention was for all of them to go off at the same time in a ring. Whether or not they go off at the correct time, it's still been altered so they go off at a specific time and thus are timed. Perhaps consult a dictionary?

 

you just said their are a few timing faults.If their are a few timing faults then they are not timed properly are they?

 

You never mentioned the words 'properly' to begin with. It doesn't matter if something is timed properly or not, it's still timed and it sure looked like it was timed. Many of the inserts went off at the correct time as well, so the general consensus is that they were.

 

If that 3" inch shell was the one that you made by dipping in N/C and BP granuals, then Dave is right about the priming. You have multiple reports going off at the same time.It doesn't look timed at all.

 

Just keep what you said in mind now. Only if you're a moron, would you think that it doesn't look timed at all. Who gives a flying 747 if some of the reports went off when they weren't supposed to. The vast majority did, and even if they didn't you could still call them timed. As timed is the regulation of occurrence, the time when the inserts went off have still nonetheless been altered. Perhaps don't be so insulting to another person's work next time, especially when it's above decent.

 

 

Valids point Dagabu, but you still have to mix up like 20grams of flash and load them as you said. The construction of the shell is still inherently more dangerous than making a star shell. But, you raise a good point for when it is constructed. If you employ the various techniques and exercise caution when making the flash, you're good to go.

[Cookieman]

Alright, time to give you an English lesson.

"What are you on? Although there are a few timing faults, it certainly looks timed."

So how exactly did I contradict myself? Indeed, there was a couple of inserts that went off at the incorrect time but it certainly looks timed. Regardless, the contention was for all of them to go off at the same time in a ring. Whether or not they go off at the correct time, it's still been altered so they go off at a specific time and thus are timed. Perhaps consult a dictionary?

 

 

 

You never mentioned the words 'properly' to begin with. It doesn't matter if something is timed properly or not, it's still timed and it sure looked like it was timed. Many of the inserts went off at the correct time as well, so the general consensus is that they were.

 

 

 

Just keep what you said in mind now. Only if you're a moron, would you think that it doesn't look timed at all. Who gives a flying 747 if some of the reports went off when they weren't supposed to. The vast majority did, and even if they didn't you could still call them timed. As timed is the regulation of occurrence, the time when the inserts went off have still nonetheless been altered. Perhaps don't be so insulting to another person's work next time, especially when it's above decent.

 

 

Valids point Dagabu, but you still have to mix up like 20grams of flash and load them as you said. The construction of the shell is still inherently more dangerous than making a star shell. But, you raise a good point for when it is constructed. If you employ the various techniques and exercise caution when making the flash, you're good to go.

 

 

Thanks for the English lesson Gunzway, perhaps I should have said timed precisely in a spiral fashion. I'm not insulting anyones work here, I'm saying it didn't look the same as Dagabu's and I'm trying to find out which priming method works best to get the best results.You really don't have to get that deffensive.

[dagabu]

 

Valids point Dagabu, but you still have to mix up like 20grams of flash and load them as you said. The construction of the shell is still inherently more dangerous than making a star shell. But, you raise a good point for when it is constructed. If you employ the various techniques and exercise caution when making the flash, you're good to go.

 

I digress, you are correct in that, raw open flash carries inherent danger where I do not believe stars do.

[dagabu]

Yes, some did go off early, that is only because I used hot glue to seal the time fuse in place which is a bad idea. Also I don't have any cutting jig, so I just lined up the timefuse on the rule and put a mark on it and than cut.

 

Also, I wanted the reports to go off at the same time in a 'ring'. I wasn't trying to make them go in a spiral if that is what your thinking.

 

Will,

 

Do you want my anvil shears? I made a plate style one and I no longer need the shears.

[Gunzway]

No hard feelings, I merely voiced my opinion and took the comment back at me a bit too harsh. It happens when you go to the equivilant of the 'DMV', wait an hour and then get told you need to get a person authorised to witness a statutory declaration, to witness my signature so I can get my learners permit. Back on Thursday now...

 

Anyway, to get back on topic. I've been building some canister shells lately and have been playing around with some salute inserts. I'm just wondering if anyone has experimented with these without timefuse being used as the delay. As in, is it realistic for me to think I can achieve such precise delays without it? I've been thinking of spolettes but they're impractical for such a size of a report, as well, the spolette would be close to the actual size of the insert. There's also a beraq method where you use a BP slurry as the delay agent. Kind of just been using visco with masking tape, but I'm also now searching for my first "DAMN!" and more precise construction is needed.

 

Also, be careful when you show other people's work. Since I've shown my family some of those master rockets, they're kind of expecting me to make things similar to that standard and to impress them now days takes a lot more effort. Wonderful masterpieces.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Gunzway