Ground Salutes

[Mumbles]

I wish more people I knew a couple of years ago knew this. People used to take air bangers (bear scarers) and pokes holes in one end and stick a fuse in. If that isn't dangerous enough, they wouldn't fill it in with glue afterwards and often the hole was bigger than the fuse going into it. This meant that Flash Powder was leaking out, almost always all over the fuse. I'm talking green fuses now gray coated with powder. Thankfully they still exploded after 1-2 seconds or else most of the people I knew wouldn't have hands. I tried to give them a couple of 3g M80s I made that compare to them for the same price that have about the same power with 5 sec+ fuses so they wouldn't blow their hands off. They still insisted to go with the bear banger M80s. Natural selection taking its path...

 

If you're selling M-80's to them, you're not far behind on the natural selection pecking order.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Yeah you won't make many friends here selling illegal M80s. That one thing has done more to damage firework laws probably more than all the accidents caused by fireworks combined.

 

Just so you know, by doing that you are committing multiple felonies. If caught you might make a deal to get a few dropped to lesser charges but you will likely be convicted of at least one felony. That means no voting, no firearms, no making fireworks at conventions, etc, etc.

 

Not worth it! Enjoy your fireworks but keep them to yourself and on your land. If you store stuff get an orange book and make a magazine that will suffice for what you want to store in it. Invite people over to watch if you want to show off your work.

 

Some people have to learn the hard way. If your advice fell on deaf ears it's better them than you.

[mikeee]

The realities of making M-80's it is only a matter of time before someone gets busted with the items you sell and they roll over on you, or you have an accident while processing the flash powder. Neither one of the above situations is worth the risk or the impact it would have on your life and future.

 

The first question the police ask when discovering M-80's on your property is who did you get these from?

If you tell them you made them, you are busted for a felony. So the reality is if you make them and sell them anyone caught with them has only one option to stay out of jail. The courts and lawyers are looking for any kind of business to produce an income and they just love these kind of cases.

[LiamPyro]

The realities of making M-80's it is only a matter of time before someone gets busted with the items you sell and they roll over on you, or you have an accident while processing the flash powder. Neither one of the above situations is worth the risk or the impact it would have on your life and future.The first question the police ask when discovering M-80's on your property is who did you get these from?If you tell them you made them, you are busted for a felony. So the reality is if you make them and sell them anyone caught with them has only one option to stay out of jail. The courts and lawyers are looking for any kind of business to produce an income and they just love these kind of cases.

Wouldn't the same be true if you were caught with homemade shells, rockets, etc? I know salutes are classified differently, but they are both illegal...

[nater]

M80s and similar devices are considered "destructive devices" and carry stiffer charges.

[mikeee]

You can build pyro items and use them on your own premises the same day. If you build pyro

items and store them you need to have a licensed and approved storage magazine. If you own

a black powder rifle or black powder cannon you are allowed to have 50 pounds of BP on hand

for hobby purposes.

Transporting pyro items on public roads requires proper license and permits for this activity.

Most of my Pyro building is done during licensed club shoots on remote sites.

[LiamPyro]

Thanks for explaining! I have a few questions though. About building fireworks and setting them off on your property within 24 hours... is that always true, or is it affected by state/county regulations? Also, if you have black powder for cannons/rifles, does it still need to be stored in a magazine? Because if so, then why doesn't commercial BP need to be stored in a magazine? Like the kind you buy in cans and bottles from gun stores.

[nater]

Discharging fireworks on your own property is subject to local laws. Here is the problem, localities which have legalized consumer fireworks are typically written so that all use of are illegal, u less they are exempt, hence the ex numbers on 1.4g fireworks. Because what you make is not inspected or approved by the CPSC and DOT for consumer use it automatically falls in a different category. It is not necessarily 1.3g fireworks, but an other explosive (could also be an improvised explosive device by law enforcement!).

 

Your safest bet is to ensure your product is discharged with the appropriate fireworks display permit issued and the necessary insurance in effect. For this reason, I build and shoot at club events.

 

Now if your locality approves of fireworks, your neighbors stay happy and you keep them on your property and of similar size to consumer devices, you might be just fine or you might still be breaking the law.

 

Support your local club.

[Carbon796]

That is true, as far as the ATFE is concerned. But, local state and county regulations will generally have final jurisdiction. BP, for use in antique firearms or for reenactment purposes. Does not need to be stored in a magazine, up to 50 lbs. Once the intent, is to use commercial BP in fireworks manufacturing. You need to be licensed, and it is required to be stored in a magazine.

 

 

" Wouldn't the same be true if you were caught with homemade shells, rockets, etc? I know salutes are classified differently, but they are both illegal... "

 

The main difference is that M-80's were specifically banned in the Child Protection Act of 1966. Shells and rockets have not been . . .

[Mike]

Just out of curiosity, witch license is required in the us for producing ground salutes for personal use?

[nater]

The answer about the proper license depends on your State and Local governments. Federally, manufacturing fireworks for personal use with no storage and no transport is legal, however many states and cities have stricter laws. Generally, the Manufacturer of Explosives license from the BATFE along with the appropriate magazine storage and setback distances would apply. However, bulk salutes can quickly fall under storage requirements for a Type 1 or 2 magazine which are stricter than what is normally used for low explosives like fireworks.

 

Even less clear is what an agent might define as "bulk salutes" and the line from a firework to explosive devices which were banned in the already mentioned Child Safety Act and more recent anti-terrorism laws.

 

Bottom line is to build more than salutes and by building only at events like the PGI and club shoots, it is easy to be legal.

[gregh]

"Bulk Salutes" really is a grey area. Some companies include a white peony in a case of salutes so they can be stored in a type 4.

[Merlin]

I heard somewhere you could get a relatively quite 70/30 and an intense flash by diluting the comp 25% 70/30 and 75% sawdust. Tempted to try maybe on rocket header.

[OblivionFall]

I can almost guarantee that you're going to make some large salutes like the ones of youtube, so I reccomend you research Blue Aluminum powder for making those.

 

Maybe be creative about it. Try aerial salutes and make a cake that shoots a couple of them out. Then you can safely use Titanium powder in them and it looks and sounds great.

[mikeee]

Several days ago on another Pyro site there was a link to a news story related to someone that

was building fireworks in there apartment. The person was blown through a patio door onto the

front yard, when a neighbor came out to see what happened he saw the man looking at his arms

which were missing both hands. The man was muttering something about making fireworks when the

explosion happened. Most likely this person was mixing a large quantity of flash when a static spark

set it off. Loosing both hands is no way to spend the rest of your life.

[Carbon796]

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/28957325/cape-coral-condos-evacuated-after-explosion

[OblivionFall]

Several days ago on another Pyro site there was a link to a news story related to someone that

was building fireworks in there apartment. The person was blown through a patio door onto the

front yard, when a neighbor came out to see what happened he saw the man looking at his arms

which were missing both hands. The man was muttering something about making fireworks when the

explosion happened. Most likely this person was mixing a large quantity of flash when a static spark

set it off. Loosing both hands is no way to spend the rest of your life.

Damn, that's insane... scares you into not working with Flash

[mikeee]

Anyone playing with flash should read up on the topic and learn about binary mixing methods

and safety measures that need to be taken prior to working with this compound.

Static is a big problem with these compounds, most people don't understand that when you

walk across the carpet and touch a door knob and get a shock the spark that is created is

thousands of volts with small amperage, but this spark is very similar to an electric

igniter. Working around flash compounds and all of the aluminum metal in the compound is

a very good conductor and the compound is so fine it takes very little effort to ignite

it via a spark.

[Shunt]

Anyone playing with flash should read up on the topic and learn about binary mixing methods

and safety measures that need to be taken prior to working with this compound.

Static is a big problem with these compounds, most people don't understand that when you

walk across the carpet and touch a door knob and get a shock the spark that is created is

thousands of volts with small amperage, but this spark is very similar to an electric

igniter. Working around flash compounds and all of the aluminum metal in the compound is

a very good conductor and the compound is so fine it takes very little effort to ignite

it via a spark.

 

+1 Mike

 

Also if enough of the fine AL gets airborne into the work area it will take fire from a static spark very easily, and 'flash fire' into the main comp. being mixed.

[MrB]

I heard somewhere you could get a relatively quite 70/30 and an intense flash by diluting the comp 25% 70/30 and 75% sawdust. Tempted to try maybe on rocket header.

Wood-meal type of thing might work. It has to burn out fast enough not to leave a spark trail. Unless... You want the spark trail.

B!

[mabuse00]

 

Most likely this person was mixing a large quantity of flash when a static spark

set it off. Loosing both hands is no way to spend the rest of your life.

I agree about flash involved, but I don't think it's helpful to speculate about the rest. We don't know how his stuff ignited. There are lot's of possibilities.

 

Wow, not just hands, even "lower arms"

I hope they found at least some usable bits for resection. I feel sorry for that guy no matter how careless he might have been...

 

 

 

 

I heard somewhere you could get a relatively quite 70/30 and an intense flash by diluting the comp 25% 70/30 and 75% sawdust. Tempted to try maybe on rocket header.

IMHO this wont work. It will still give a sharp crack.

[Mumbles]

Merlin, the effect you're looking for is called a photoflash. All light, minimal noise. There is some information on the forum about it in all likelihood, and you can always start a thread about it. It might help to have a dedicated topic if one hasn't been created already to localize the discussion. Mabuse, I've actually read from some quite reputable sources about the sawdust thing working. I do believe that the casing will also factor in. These are for shells and shell inserts, so there is some distance to diffuse the sound as well.

[mx5kevin]

In my tests after 10 year research. My specialty are firecrackers and ground salutes. I found two flash powders that are much better than others for ground salutes.

The brightest most effective extreme loud flash powder what i used in large ground salutes was:

 

30 Ba(NO3)2

30 KClO4

30 Aluminum (20 micron important in large salutes)

10 Sulfur

 

The aluminum need to protect with 2% boric acid what need to dissolved in small amount of water then dried it to overcoat the aluminum. Its a extreme bright, effective, and extreme loud composition. The 20 micron aluminum are important. If the aluminum is too fine then the ground salute bright flash effect will be much less effective. If the aluminum are too coarse then the flash powder will be too slow. Blue aluminum very good for this purpose, it is worth making from this a 80:20 Blue aluminum/Dark aluminum (4-5 micron) mixture. This flash powder composition can fund at How to Build Flash/Stun Grenades By George Dmitrieff book and in the photoflash powder compositions. Its strength was increased by sulfur. The oxidizer and catalyst it should be fineest as possible and completely dried moisture free. Before and after grinding i dried the oxidizer in a hot plate using a saucepan and ball milled 36 hours. The best results can be achieved when the flash powder in small doses using safety gears which also protects our face and hands softly stirred (and never grind important!) few minutes in a mortar so that the ingredients mixed homogeneously well. Its light is stronger and lasts longer than many other flash powder. Actively illuminates the terrain.

 

The second best flash powder was KClO4 Al S 50/40/10% ratio with 20 micron aluminum for large ground salutes and in small firecrackers with 3-5 micron dark aluminum powder. In this flash powder does not need to protect the aluminum powder because potassium perchlorate does not attack it, see The Art, Science, and Technique Takeo Shimizu book. This flash powder effect are less effective in large firecrackers, but more powerful than the first composition. This composition voice is extremely loud! Using 4-5 micron aluminum powder in large ground salutes larger than 15g with KClO4 are the effect not so spectacular smaller and it lasts shorter than 20 micron aluminum. If the metal powder is too fine, the particles will burn too quickly, especially if it is magnesium or magnalium. KClO4 and another flash powders without catalyst like sulfur or Sb2S3 are less powerful.

 

Using nitrates Ba(NO3)2 Mg (-325 mesh or finer) was most the brightest. The magnesium all nitrates need to coat with 4% boiled linseed oil and dried, or the nitrates attack the magnesium powder. This composition are extreme bright. I used a Ba(NO3)2 Mg S 50 40 10 ratio. The 5:4:1 ratio all of these nitrates worked perfectly.

 

Using KNO3, Sr(NO3)2 red effect, NaNO3 yellow effect , are required (-325 mesh or finer) magnesium and sulfur catalyst to get fast and strong flash powder. Nitrates with aluminum they are weak for ground salutes. The two fastest nitrate with 4-5 micron aluminum what have a stable whump was Ba(NO3)2 and Sr(NO3)2. But these were not as fast and strong as with (-400 mesh) magnesium. The voice and powder of this nitrates far behind from KClO4. Even the strongest nitrate flash are quarter is so strong.

 

KClO4 with extra fine magnesium have no flash effect. Seeing nothing just hearing a big bang. KClO4 with 50:50 MgAl alloy are less effective than aluminum and need to coat it with 4% boiled linseed oil. In large ground salutes need to use coarser magnalium (250-300 mesh) if we use KClO4 or the flash effect will be weary poor. If we use KClO4 and Mg/Al 50:50 alloy better use the KClO4 with Ba(NO3)2 50/50 to get a bright stable effect. Mg/Al 50:50 are not so bright than aluminum.

 

Flash powders where the oxidizer and metal powder are close to 50/50 are give the brightest effect. The ideal Sulfur catalyst was 10%.

 

The best paper tubes made from copy paper glued with Sodium Silicate 40% (Water Glass). This gives hard, rigid, strong paper tubes which are very ideal for firecrackers and ground salutes. The secondary for larger tubes i use wood glue with water cc 3:1 ratio and brown craft paper (masking paper) from paint shop. But without (Water Glass) the tubes are not so hard and rigid. The wall thickness are 8-10% of the internal diameter of the tube in all versions was worked me the best.

 

Before i put the flash powders in the tube I sift them through a sieve to loosen the dust and I pour very loosely into the tube. If we made it on different occasions the flash powder then they must be mixed before loading because their burning rate is somewhat different and this negative from the effect.

[davidh]

That blue aluminum is not the safety panacea that many of you think it is. Compare flash made with dark aluminum against flash made with blue aluminum with friction and impact tests. It should prove eye-opening.

[Arthur]

The flash powder of early photography was deliberately made very fuel rich so that what little explosion there was raised the burning metals into the air to burn with atmospheric oxygen this made the powder quieter and brighter. Very similar designs were used with military photoflash armament during WW2, the mix was very under oxidised so that the flash would burn in atmospheric oxygen and not have a big bang to destroy the aircraft that dropped it.