Mario1 Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Hello everyone! I havent been on in a while so I thought Id come back with a bang ( no pun intended ). Ground salutes interest me and before anyone goes crazy, yes Ive worked with BP before and made fountains, rockets, and stuff. I wanted to try and slowly try FP, and I have researched it extensively. So heres what Im thinking of doing- I want to make a small ground salute (no more then 3g of fp). Im going to buy anti static spray and de-static every thing in my work area. To mix I will use the diaper method. My questions are as follows- Is hot glue a bad idea when glueing paper end caps? Once the salute is made, does it still pose a hazard of igniting spontaneous? What kind of humidity should I attempt this in? Anyway Im going to use the 7:3 ratio Patassium Perc. and Indian aluminum. Only 3 grams though so the correct amount would be 2.1g of potassium perc. and 0.9g of indian aluminum. Im not crazy scared of FP, I respect it. Im not a kewl trying to make some FP bombz. Thanks to everyone who helps in advance!
Ventsi Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Humidity should be medium-high, 80% relative should be fine. And hot glue is not a problem for the end caps, however its not that great. You should use PVA wood glue rather since it makes a better bond between the paper fibers. If you meant to fill up the recess however a big blob oh hot glue is a bad idea. When the salute goes "pop" you have a big, dense, rubbery object flying towards anyone or anything, fast. A mix of sawdust and glue is better for filling in the recess.
Mario1 Posted June 9, 2010 Author Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) No im not filling it up with glue lol. Anyway is sawdust necessary, and does it change the sound at all?Also should I go Indian blackhead or German? I really dont know the difference. Edited June 9, 2010 by Mario1
Ralph Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 3g of flash will report in an open ended tube. the purpose of the end caps is really just to stop the flash from spilling out some paper and some glue is absolutely enough. as for Indian and German there is not a huge amount of difference some people think German is better but this is simply tradition really the finest German out there is 3micron the finest Indian is 2-4micron there is no difference Indian is generally cheaper because it doesn't have the reputation and because things from countries such as Indian are cheaper than western countries
Mario1 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Posted June 10, 2010 Ok thanks guys. Ill probably get Indian then because of the prices. Also I checked the humidity in my area and its at 36% which is pretty bad for making FP. Either way Im not going to buy the chemcials until a few weeks so hopefully that changes.
Mario1 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Posted June 10, 2010 Another question. Should I buy the Aluminum from a seperate site then the Perc or just a seperate order? I dont want to get in trouble.
Peret Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Another question. Should I buy the Aluminum from a seperate site then the Perc or just a seperate order? I dont want to get in trouble.Probably nobody is going to sell you the two components for flash at the same time, for fear of the CPSC. You probably won't get into trouble, but they will. I think the rule is if they have any reason to believe you're going to make flash, they become liable if they accept your order, and some will blacklist you. You may be ok if you're an established customer. But I think as a general rule it's safest to order each from a different supplier, because if those are the only items you're buying it's a bit bloody obvious.
Arthur Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 At fast flash sizes the mesh size is less important than the particle shape -which you can't see by eye!
Mario1 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Posted June 10, 2010 Sorry for yet another double post but Im thinking of adding some titanium. Would that be bad? If not what kind should I get. And would you just a put a little on after the FP is already mixed?
Mumbles Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 These don't seem like the kind of questions someone who has "researched it extensively" would ask.
Mario1 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Posted June 10, 2010 I have researched it. I just feel better with a direct, personal answer. Im sure anyone else would too.
dagabu Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) Why does this thread just make me feel uneasy? Mario, it may be better if you just tell us what you want to do and we will give you feedback on your efforts. I dont know you and you dont know me so if I tell you to go ahead and add this amount of something to this or that and you have an accident and in conversation you tell your lawyer that I said that it was just hunky-dory to add such an amount of such and such to this and that I could get in a whole lot of trouble. That's why we are all being very quite... BTW- Your link at the bottom of the page is flagged as malicious code. you may want to delete that before Mumbles or Sidewinder do. Edited June 10, 2010 by dagabu
Mario1 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Posted June 10, 2010 What code? My sig? Ok well I deleted it. Im just thinking of trying to make some ground salutes. I would think that would be kind of obvious with the topic title. The 4th is coming up and Im getting my consumer fireworks from phantom and making some of my own.
TheEskimo Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Just my 2 cents, but this discussion makes me uneasy. I went through my loud bangs phase very quickly. I stopped because I realized that the local constable would not appreciate artillery-sounding devices going off repeatedly, and I have some neighbors. I also felt that dealing with these mixtures was rather unwise for my torso and hands. I also found myself getting careless and sloppy, because they are so easy and quick to mix up and fire.I really don't feel that ground salutes are a good thing for someone who has "worked with BP before and made fountains, rockets, and stuff". These are not toys, and even three grams will at the very least destroy your hand if you are holding one.I also agree with Mumbles. These questions do not sound like you have researched much on this subject. There are 2 threads about working with FP on the first page of the Safety section. There are multiple threads that give "direct, personal answers" to the same exact questions that you have asked. Google also will give up a goldmine of the same exact information. Booms are fun and all, but I really think that you should avoid these types of devices for a while. Try out some aerial shells. In all reality, they will be just as loud as a small salute, and give much more staisfaction to you and your audience.If you wish to go ahead, do so, but I personally cannot agree with what you are doing, what with the type of questions you are asking, and the intent you have.
pyrochris732 Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 i went through the kewl phase for a total of 2 months, and realized how boring and non-creative it is. Thats what brought me to this site. I think you are on the right track with safety, but I also think you are going to get bored really quickly with ground salutes. If I could recommend any way to make a boom i would say to do aerial booms instead. Its not any safer but you may buy yourself a little more respect from people around here if you try to be more creative. Furthermore, aerial salutes going off in the sky sound so much better than on the ground.
al93535 Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Wow.... Buy the chemicals from seperate suppliers, get the perchlorate from a reputable source. Get yourself either german black, or indian aluminum it won't make a difference. Use paper tubes, and use white or yellow wood glue to seal in the paper end caps, you dont need anything else. Mix your flash in a 7:3 ratio, and dont add anything other then the perchlorate and aluminum. Diaper mix it after spraying yourself and your work area with antistatic spray! Wear cotton clothing. Forget titanium for ground salutes as it can easily start fires! Make sure you use good quality fuse!!!! I use ONLY american for ground salutes. Drill your hole before any assembly and make sure you glue around the fuse to seal it well! You can fill the tube as much as you want, I have never found a difference in a half filled or almost completely filled tube. Ground salutes are simple, and fun. I remember my first few... awesome! They have never lost thier glory for me!!! Even though everyone else has already said it, just be careful. Make sure you have a suitable place for igniting these types of items.
jimbo Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 my 0.3 gram 30/70 salutes crack really loud I go up the bush to let them off or wait for new years,my 1gram 1/4inch salutes I use as inserts probably entertain my whole suburb up in the air, 3gram ground salutes would be seriously loud,as i'm in australia I have to be discreet, also if your gonna light them and throw them a short distance small ones are still good entertainment whilst not telling the whole neighbourhood what you are up to,plus with the small ones your friends probably think they're pussy until they hear them especially with 30/70 german dark
metalhead Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Don't ever light a salute in your hand or any type of firework that could do potential damage. IF something does go wrong, you're more likely to walk away with a burn and ringing ears, rather than missing fingers...or worse. 2
Mario1 Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 Alright thanks Al you pretty much summed it up.
Cookieman Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 I have to agree with the other members about ground salutes. Not only is it dangerous, but it attracts alot of attention. I'm sure alot of us here have made ground salutes and I'm no exception. When you start making aerial shells you'll get alot more satisfaction. Ive already had an encounter with the police with ground salutes and learned my lesson.
Mario1 Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 I guess Ill just have to go through this phase then. And I agree with you guys on the dangers, but wouldnt ariel salutes be more dangerous? I mean, theroreticaly couldnt they fly anyway and explode? With a ground salute you know where its at. If an ariel salute goes up and comes at you or a house or a car it could be bad. Just saying.
Pretty green flame Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 I guess Ill just have to go through this phase then. And I agree with you guys on the dangers, but wouldnt ariel salutes be more dangerous? I mean, theroreticaly couldnt they fly anyway and explode? With a ground salute you know where its at. If an ariel salute goes up and comes at you or a house or a car it could be bad. Just saying. No worries, I've been involved in pyrotechnics for about 6 yetars and I still enjoy a good salute, as do many of the members here, probably. But as cookie said you'll find out that they draw too much attention and they are more likely to get you into trouble. I usually make a couple for NYE and easter when there's a lot of pyroechnic related stuff going on and people don't pay much attention to it, it's somewhat more socially acceptable on those days (atleast where I live). Aerial salutes can be nicely incorporated into a fireworks show and they provide that extra kick to a finale.
Mario1 Posted June 11, 2010 Author Posted June 11, 2010 Well I would be using them around the 4th of July which is America's independance day. Most people use tons of salutes and consumer fireworks despite them being illegal where I live. The cops issue tickets, then drive away. Thats it. My friends dad got like $200 in tickets from the same cop last year. Though it doesnt stop anyone when the whole block is doing them.
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