Breakthrough in making stars

[Pyropow3r]

New method and binder makes great stars and is very fast drying....

 

I came up with this method yesterday..... As a result of my quest to make fast drying stars with readily available of the shelf materials...

 

Materials needed:

 

- Star comp (i used c6 stars)

 

- PVA glue otherwise known as white glue or Elmers bond

 

- Some kind of alcohol or other white spirit

 

Method:

 

- weigh out 5% PVA glue when compared to your star comp

 

- mix the PVA with a reasonable amount of alcohol until dissolved... at first it will seem like they cant mix together but keep stiring and it will come good.. use a fork or whisk to speed

things up

 

- It should be like a clear syrup like consistency.... kinda like corn syrup

 

- Add this to your star comp mix and mash it in good..

 

- since i am going to cut my stars you will need to add more alcohol to make it into a play-doh like consistency

 

- when play-doh like consistency is achieved roll out the comp to desired thickness and cut into stars and leave to dry over night

 

- Now you have your stars ready to use ....... quick and easy

 

REVIEW:

 

- Water may be used instead of alcohol as a result you drying time will be increased dramatically

 

- drying time of stars made with alcohol will dry very quickly!!! due to the very low evaporation point of alcohol

 

- stars can be made and used the next day!!!!! even in very cold damp conditions

 

- this is the best method i have tried in making cut stars due to the excellent texture of the comp when wet

[Gunzway]

Hurrrr durrr... I can't make dextrin!

 

That method sounds like it will adversely affect the burn properties of stars. Not to mention, economically I'm sure it is a lot more costly than that of traditional binders. Seriously... what's wrong with making dextrin?

[dagabu]

That is pretty interesting, I have a gallon of PVA dissolved in Acetone (pure Vinol PVA beads) that I used for stabilizing dinosaur bones when the kids were into paleontology a few years ago that I need to use up. It sounds like this may be a good fit.

 

I have a few star comps that I add bicarb to to slow it down and it sounds like the PVA will be a good substitute.

[Pretty green flame]

Just to clear things up, we're talking about PVAc (White glue), as far as PVA (Polyvinyl alcohol) goes, I saw a documentary on NG about Zambelli fireworks some time ago, they mentioned the use of PVA as a binder in pressed comets. Has anyone tried this?

[Mumbles]

This is nothing new. Someone comes up with this idea every few years. You will probably find it's use rather limited.

 

PVAcetate like PVAlcohol need to have their fuel values taken accounted for when using rather sensitive compositions (colors for instance). Charcoal streamers are pretty much fool-proof. I've heard that binders like these give a more granular appearance to the tail, vs a more full and creamy looking tail possible by some other binders. If you don't account for the fuel value in colored stars or some other compositions, you will get a rather noticeable incandescence of excess carbon which will detract from the color.

 

The other thing to know is that PVAc and PVAlc are both solvent retentive. They may seem dry, but there is still going to be some water and alcohol in there. They won't preform correctly until everything is gone.

 

I've used Polyvinyl alcohol in pressing things. It wasn't comets persay, but it worked fine. Hit me up on MSN sometime and I can give you more details PGF.

[Pyropow3r]

Hurrrr durrr... I can't make dextrin!

 

That method sounds like it will adversely affect the burn properties of stars. Not to mention, economically I'm sure it is a lot more costly than that of traditional binders. Seriously... what's wrong with making dextrin?

 

 

- Yes it does affect the burn rate of the stars a bit so i suggest you use this method with hot star comps...... it still works fine....

 

- Economically pva is quite cheap and would be no different price wise than using dextrin........... " what about the alcohol that's costly " .......well the alcohol is only optional you can use water..... beside alcohol is only $2 a liter where i live... look at how many stars you could make with that!!!! so its worth it because you get a very fast drying time

 

- Whats wrong with dextrin you ask....... well dextrin only works with water!!! it takes like a week for stars to dry

Edited May 26, 2010 by Pyropow3r

[Mumbles]

Well, do you want to make good pyro, or fast pyro? Patience is a virtue my friend.

[Arthur]

Pyro is a seasonal hobby, make powders and stars (etc) in hot sunny weather when big stars will dry well.

Make things with those ingredients and paste the shells when outside the weather is less good.

[Gunzway]

Well, do you want to make good pyro, or fast pyro? Patience is a virtue my friend.

 

This. You will find that people who utilize techniques to decrease the amount of time almost always inherently produces a poorer product. Maybe I'm just somewhat of a perfectionist, but one good shell oppose to five mediocre ones seems to give me more satisfaction.

[gordohigh]

Ned from skylighter posted a great method of making screen cut stars that can be used the same day with acetone and parlon as the binder/chlorine donor, here is the link

 

http://www.skylighter.com/how_to_make_fireworks/Red_Rubber-Stars.asp

 

There is also some new video on youtube from displayfireworks1 that uses this method at a crackerjacks convention, a series of 5 videos that show the whole shell building process.

 

I plan on trying thhis out as soon as I can find some 3 mesh strong screen to make the cutter out of. This method looks to be fast and produces a quality star without any water.

[Ralph]

why is every one is so much of a hurry these days I would go a dextrin/GA/SGRS bound star over a parlon/PVA/redgum star any day the water soluble binders give the star such a nice finish nice and hard often just a little bit rough making them take fire more easily these water solubles burn away nicely (cleanly and they act as a fuel) you cant really beat them I use parlon with acetone generally only for coloured comps with uncoated mg and for colour comps were im still developing them and don't want to affect its burn characteristics by messing with the oxygen balance (though i do try to work the binder in after woulds) and in these cases parlon is already there

 

give water soluble binders another go they really are brilliant. and almost impossible to beat

 

Im seriously ashamed to be part of this generation were even eating an icecream is aperntly to boring and that it needs spicing up (Aussie pyros will know the add im referring to). We want everything now ask your pearants what a letter is thats the way they used to do things not instantly they had a thing called patience a virtue that is lacking in this generation

[dagabu]

Hmmmm,

 

There is a place for all comps and binders, it depends on what you like, what you have time for and your skill level. My first stars ever were TBP's Ruby Red and a Silicone II cut star.

 

I loved them so much that I started rolling my own with water based comps, went to pressed and pumped stars and am now doing AP based stars that you have to keep dry.

[Pyropow3r]

Well, do you want to make good pyro, or fast pyro? Patience is a virtue my friend.

 

who's to say this method produces inferior stars??? just because this method is quick does not mean it is crap..... stars made with this method are just as good as traditional binders like dextrin sgrs or redgum this method is just as good if not better.

 

you can replace the alcohol with water if you want to.... or better still use acetone like Ned does.... stars will dry in 2-3 hours!!!!!

 

you guys are just afraid to move on from old out dated techniques

[Arthur]

Probably because the old techniques as currently updated are superior.

 

Cost is critical so water is cheaper than alcohol or acetone. Storage is critical because we make, in preparation for an event, and store the devices, so they must be safe and stable in storage.

 

Rarely if ever do we want to make and fire a device in one day.

 

Regularly it's seen that old techniques leave much to be desired BUT they are cheap and relatively safe -remember that we are dealing with explosives here. It's not a good plan to change techniques til you are certain how the product will perform when stored and fired at least 5 years later -In commerce sometimes you buy a box of something then use one or two a year so the last few have been sitting in store for a while! Remember that a licensed store in whatever country cycles its temperature and humidity with the season so the contents will also cycle temperature and humidity.

[Seymour]

I agree that traditional methods are almost always superior, which is why they are still used. I also strongly believe that taking your time to build a firework usually results in as much better device, and most importantly is safer, since when you rush things you are more prone to making mistakes or cutting corners.

 

When this is applied to 'improvising', and trying to come up with new methods is not something that should be done without thought, particularly towards safety. However I do not think this means we should discourige it. We are the group of people who to a large part drive innovation in pyrotechnics. Many new erffects have been made first by hobbiests before industry decided to do the same.

 

It is potentially risky though... since there have not been people doing it for years, to be 'guinea pigs'. But as long as research is done on the topic beforehand, and you have a good approach, I say go for it.

 

Almost always traditional methods will beat the attempts at innovation, but that's another topic...

 

Just keep safety in your minds!

[dagabu]

I agree that traditional methods are almost always superior, which is why they are still used.

 

Regretfully, your posting is almost completely false. Chlorate is hardly used outside smoke and most of the "traditional" chems used (the list is too long to list) are now outlawed or to dangerous to work with.

 

IF, by traditional, you mean the style of making shells, canisters and such, then I agree. If you are speaking of chems that make all of the pretty colors we see today, 90% of them were invented (discovered) in the past 100 years.

 

Traditional seems to be a term that means "I no longer want to change". There is no such thing as traditional; kraft paper is how old? How about Dextrin?

[Arthur]

History is there to learn from! If we fail to learn we repeat the same mistakes.

 

Chlorate is rare these days, calomel and Paris Green rarer still thank goodness. HCB was a useful chlorine donor til it was noted to be hazardous. NOT every modern invention is of lasting value, but the challenge is more stability in the medium term (months to years) as something can be made that survives immediate investigation but degrades or fails over the first few seasons.

[Seymour]

Regretfully, your posting is almost completely false. Chlorate is hardly used outside smoke and most of the "traditional" chems used (the list is too long to list) are now outlawed or to dangerous to work with.

 

IF, by traditional, you mean the style of making shells, canisters and such, then I agree. If you are speaking of chems that make all of the pretty colors we see today, 90% of them were invented (discovered) in the past 100 years.

 

Traditional seems to be a term that means "I no longer want to change". There is no such thing as traditional; kraft paper is how old? How about Dextrin?

 

You can interprate what I say however you want, but I assure you that our opinions differ little. Mostly it seems, we arew using the word 'traditional' in different ways. I think traditions need not be ancient, or outdated.

 

I'm not talking about traditions of the past, which are not often used and outdated. I'm talking about currently used traditions. A composition containing KP, Red Gum, Parlon, Strontium carbonate, Magnalium and dextrin was revolutionary only decades ago. Now I consider it 'traditional'.

 

As I said

We are the group of people who to a large part drive innovation in pyrotechnics. Many new erffects have been made first by hobbiests before industry decided to do the same

 

I fully support advancement in pyrotechnics. I was pretty sure that my post said 'be careful but go for it'. I am certainly not against change.

 

Perhaps my post would have bdeen less contravercial had I used the word 'comtemoporary' as well as, or instead of 'traditional'.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Seymour

[ExplosiveCoek]

Ned from skylighter posted a great method of making screen cut stars that can be used the same day with acetone and parlon as the binder/chlorine donor, here is the link

 

http://www.skylighter.com/how_to_make_fireworks/Red_Rubber-Stars.asp

 

 

Could you tell me where you found that link? I searches all over skylighter.com but couldn't find any new articles.

[dagabu]

I am certainly not against change.

 

Perhaps my post would have bdeen less contravercial had I used the word 'comtemoporary' as well as, or instead of 'traditional'.

 

Thanks for not shewing my head off on this one, I am coughing a lung up and was a grumpy old Bastid yesterday! I guess that in the end, I agree with you, I just get a little tired of my buddies in the club that cannot move beyond what they learned 30 years ago and are stuck.

[Peret]

Could you tell me where you found that link? I searches all over skylighter.com but couldn't find any new articles.

 

It's not part of the main Skylighter site - visit the lesser-known Skylighter Blog directly.

[gordohigh]

Could you tell me where you found that link? I searches all over skylighter.com but couldn't find any new articles.

 

 

I am on their mailing list, just sign up and you'll get them every so often.

[ExplosiveCoek]

I already tried to sign up four/five times or something, I just wasn't able to get into their system. Quite strange!

 

Thanks for the link .

[Ralph]

Regretfully, your posting is almost completely false. Chlorate is hardly used outside smoke and most of the "traditional" chems used (the list is too long to list) are now outlawed or to dangerous to work with.

 

 

Have you tried chlorate stars? their brilliance surpasses any perc(k) based colour I have seen and not requiring a 15 min dip in hell to ignite them is another huge plus side a chlorate colour shell broken with H3 and a boosted spolete/passfire is safe and easy.

 

some traditional things just arnt meant to change an Italian style multibreak is still the best way to make a multibreak and a chinese ball shell is still the best way to get the most symmetrical burst. A binder that is a relatively clean burning fuel for streamers and glitters and the such will always be the way to go.

[gordohigh]

Just a follow up on the method from skylighter that I posted. I made the 3 mesh screen and I have now made 4 batches of red/green/blue rubber stars and I completely love this method. For those of us that have been pumping and cutting, this is a very nice alternate method and is quite easy, (is that a bad thing?). The quality of the stars is very good, (deep red and green color) and as you add the 2 step prime and roll them in a container, (I used a large plastic bowel), they become somewhat round and are sized nice for 2 or 3 inch shells. You could vary the screen size if you wanted a different size star but the 3 mesh works good for my needs. I hope to have someone to video my small show on the 4th so might be able to display them.

 

 

This isn't to say this method is so you can take a shortcut, it is just another method which may or may not be right for each iindividual. I also used the priming method for these rubber stars on some d1 glitter 1/4in stars from my star plate and they turned out almost round after priming and light instantly. I don't think anyone would be disappointed if they try this rubber star method, FWIW.

 

 

 

Edit... BTW whenever I go to Lowes or home depot I always look in the solvents Isle for dented cans because they will usually mark them down to half price if you find a manager. I also get pvc glue this way. I just bought a gallon of denatured alcohol for less than the price of a quart. Don't be afraid to ask, it can save you a lot of money.

Edited June 25, 2010 by gordohigh