Degn, Fast Pyro Powder

[Dr Boom]

I've been looking in the books and asking around for alternatives in the black powder arena concerning lift- someone mentioned to me to check out a very simple and rather safe KClO3 formula containing no sulfur. Huh, I thought, why have I not ran across this before... and I soon found my answer in a book by Ian Von Maltitz stating that KClO3 was far too unstable with sulfur to use in conventional black powder formulas and was highly discouraged when grinding under heavy pressure with any fuels.

 

Ok... I knew that and all the warnings that went with KClO3. Still, I wasn't going to stop there- and I was resolute to not go about mixing KClO3 in my lab with random things until I found the right combo... no, no, no- ya hear young bucks?! N-O! Research first. Save fingers and money, fun later.

 

So a few days later I can across a formula "Degn, Fast Pyro" and the source was listed as "Westech". Interesting and simple- I thought- surely someone had to have this already posted somewhere. After a brief reference search on PF, there it was!

 

KClO3 - 77

Air float Charcoal - 23

 

Now, whoever listed it in PF had it under burst charge and noted the similarity with H3 and further went on to state "The volume of gas production is 562 cubic cm per gram, compared with 280 cubic cm per gram for black powder. Can be used as lift for ball shells 8 inch and smaller, and up to 3 inch canister shells having up to two breaks. Can also be used as a burst charge for 2 inch and smaller shells."

 

Ok, so SOMEONE did something with this. Now I had a better grasp of the formula and figured I'd try it. I measured out the two chemicals by rough volumes and pre-screened the KClO3 to remove lumps. I placed both in a double wall zip-loc bag and used a combination of gentle shakes and kneading. I then added approx. 2 oz. of water and kneaded further. After just a couple minutes of mixing this way, the composition was getting stiff so I added another oz of water and took out a 1.5" HDPE mortar to use as a rolling pin and further combine the contents of the bag. It was probably an unnecessary step but it worked very well and I ended up with a nice hard sheet of composition within the bag that was neither too moist or too dry.

I set out my drying trays and broke chunks of the comp and "grated"/pushed it through a 10 mesh screen. After one night of drying (no heat, just air-dry) the grains came out very good-

 

 

 

Above is the small 2.2mm fuse for reference size.

 

So, all in all, it has proven very versatile not only as lift but also in my black powder .44, (I reload btw). Using about 22 grains of powder behind a 200 grain round ball with a standard cap- I can definitely tell there is a more energetic explosion going on but not so much to compromise the integrity of my 1851 Navy. In my 1.5 inch test stand, 1 and a half teaspoons of this comp lifted a 43 gram day smoke charge to 300 feet (using a 7 inch test mortar). Open flame tests against homemade BP were faster with similar grain sizes and amounts.

 

To conclude- is composition is effective, relatively safe to handle, takes less time and chemicals to make but MUST be keep clear of sulfur containing compositions. Any further input from the fellow pyros here would greatly appreciated!

 

Regards,

[Ventsi]

Hmm, this is very interesting, I have lifted 2" shells with H3 before and noticed significant improvement. I also noticed you didn't mention a binder, though I suppose that SGRS, Dextrin and CMC all fit the bill. Should be a good lift for my cakes since benzo-lift is kinda expensive.

 

This is something to try once I go out and grab 40lbs of KCl =]

[Dr Boom]

Yep, the binder probably would keep the dust down on this composition. I have noticed after all the scooping and pouring of my grains that some of them crumble. I'll have to look at some more tweeks this weekend coming up.

[frosty90]

With very fine chlorate and charcoal, this stuff can be crazily fast, even as just a powder with no granulation a small pile will make a very loud thump when you light it. When the chems are very fine, it doesnt need to be granulated for speed like black powder, but its obviously easier to handle in grain form.

[Dr Boom]

With very fine chlorate and charcoal, this stuff can be crazily fast, even as just a powder with no granulation a small pile will make a very loud thump when you light it. When the chems are very fine, it doesnt need to be granulated for speed like black powder, but its obviously easier to handle in grain form.

 

The granulation was for controlling that speed- the grain sizes you see in the photos above are slow enough to safely use in my black powder pistol and also for shells. A loose, fine powder configuration of this composition would probably defragrate too rapidly for employment. I made another batch using the same comp. but with a 20 mesh screen and it makes me grin like a fool in April when it makes the "whooosh" sound. The 20 mesh stuff will be spot on for cakes and breaks.

[50AE]

I agree, with a good charcoal and fine chemicals, H3 is scary! Here's a video that shows how it burns compaired to BP.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brAkD1HWK-Y

[Dr Boom]

50AE-

 

That video was very accurate! Besides the "tradition" fact of BP and use in larger shells, anyone know why this H3 isn't more widely used as lift in small shells? Err, I guess the sulfur contact with stars would be one draw back but I already said that- anyone else?

[50AE]

Maybe because KNO3 is cheaper and BP has a more gentle lift compared to H3.

[Twotails]

You think Red gum would work as a binder? I have used KP as lift a few times, and it does work after a little tweeking, and adjusting. It dosent throw out as much gas as BP(think i heard that somewere) and i was originaly using it as burst, well untill i ran out of BP. the i said what the heck and tested it. I'd say it needs about 10g per 100g of shell weight, lower gas volume = more product needed to push with the same force? Granted i did not use a lift cup, but poured the mixture into the morter. AS originaly stated it says to use hemp charcoal. while this worked great(very fast, scary fast) i decided to use AF Hardwood from skylighter. it now preforms similer to BP, as i have switched the binder from +2% SRGS to +2% Red gum. makes some hard grains.

 

I will definitly try this out.

[Cookieman]

I agree, with a good charcoal and fine chemicals, H3 is scary! Here's a video that shows how it burns compaired to BP.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=brAkD1HWK-Y

 

 

That video of H3 sounds like flash powder going off. I can see you were hesitating to go near it. I think if you use H3 to lift shells, you would probably shred your mortar tube. Way to powerfull.

[Ralph]

That video of H3 sounds like flash powder going off. I can see you were hesitating to go near it. I think if you use H3 to lift shells, you would probably shred your mortar tube. Way to powerfull.

 

thats why a slow poor quality (traditionally hemp) charcoal is used (and before some one says hemp charcoal is fast it is certainly alot slower than most decent charcoals I have used even including stone fruit charcoals)