Pyropow3r Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 I have been making BP With NO ball mill for the last few years now. I have been using the simply screen together method similar to the one on skyligter. Air floated with coffe mill then screened through 100 mesh screen and then granulated or onto rice hulls etc... what other methods are out there to make a perfectly satisfactory usable BP that does not require a ball mill..... buying a ball mill is not really an option for me because i live in AUS and they don't sell them anywhere!!! apart from eBay which costs $ 150 bucks once you take into account shipping the actual mill only cost 35 dollars but add international shipping rates and then i am screwed... Long story short 150 dollars for a crappy 3lb capacity RUBBER!!!!! drum ball mill.... not very ideal now is it..
Ralph Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Simple man up, make or buy your self a ball mill all the other Aussie pyros including my self have done this some people try to make BP using the CIA method (use google) but to do this properly the components are meant to be individually milled anyway but people use just "fine"powders. but there is nothing like ball milled bp. There is nothing wrong with the 3lb ball mills their milling efficiently is about half that of a good home made one (youll want to mill your BP for 24 hours to get really nice fast no residue meal) but they work well
dagabu Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 I have been making BP With NO ball mill for the last few years now. I have been using the simply screen together method similar to the one on skyligter. Air floated with coffe mill then screened through 100 mesh screen and then granulated or onto rice hulls etc... what other methods are out there to make a perfectly satisfactory usable BP that does not require a ball mill..... buying a ball mill is not really an option for me because i live in AUS and they don't sell them anywhere!!! apart from eBay which costs $ 150 bucks once you take into account shipping the actual mill only cost 35 dollars but add international shipping rates and then i am screwed... Long story short 150 dollars for a crappy 3lb capacity RUBBER!!!!! drum ball mill.... not very ideal now is it.. Oh Hell no, a quick internet search shows 120 hobby shops in AU, each one can order a rock tumbler for you.
mike_au Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Oh Hell no, a quick internet search shows 120 hobby shops in AU, each one can order a rock tumbler for you. While I'm sure there are several places you could get one (I suspect many of those 120 hobby shops wouldn't be interested) the pricing mentioned is fairly accurate. Buying a mill over here just isn't cost effective, for the same price you could build something far more efficient. And as Ralph said, that is the answer, build one yourself. Mine cost about $50 and will turn out about 2.5kg of powder in 4 hours Also as a side note, a rubber drum is generally considered a good thing since it makes the mill significantly quieter (at the cost of slightly longer milling times).
Mumbles Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Rubber barrels don't take any longer, just require different conditions for optimal efficiency. The grinding happens between the media, not between the media and walls. Cylindrical rubber barrels have more "grip" so they require lower RPM's than what is calculated from the traditional formula that is all over which accounts for things such as slip, etc. There are some rubber barrels that have polygon interiors, a decagon from what I recall. Each corners acts as a lift bar, and require even slower speeds yet.
Pyropow3r Posted May 12, 2010 Author Posted May 12, 2010 While I'm sure there are several places you could get one (I suspect many of those 120 hobby shops wouldn't be interested) the pricing mentioned is fairly accurate. Buying a mill over here just isn't cost effective, for the same price you could build something far more efficient. And as Ralph said, that is the answer, build one yourself. Mine cost about $50 and will turn out about 2.5kg of powder in 4 hours Also as a side note, a rubber drum is generally considered a good thing since it makes the mill significantly quieter (at the cost of slightly longer milling times). A homemade ball mill for $50 How did you manage to pull that off sure you could get the motor from an old wahing machine or some old industrial equipment from a recycling center etc... some other stuff like wood too. But what about the bearings you need 4 pillow block bearings that cost around 30 bucks each....that equivilates to $120 just on bearings you will also need some bright shafting to another 20 bucks... and a pvc milling jar another say $20-$30 So my question is how did you make one for $50.... i would love to know....
Arthur Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 First, Rubber drum is good, they mill well and quietly. So this persistent rumble of your mill will not be noticed off your plot. -Life becomes difficult when you annoy the neighbours. The easiest solution to the rollers is to use two conveyor belt rollers. These have a plastic or steel surface with sealed bearings and a axle ready fitted, some even have belt grooves. In the UK these are on ebay for £3 - 10 according to length and weight capacity (and they start at 250kilos which is a fair sized mill jar).
mike_au Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 But what about the bearings you need 4 pillow block bearings that cost around 30 bucks each.... Depends how pretty you want it to be. My first mill used cheap ball bearings rather than pillow blocks. I just drilled a hole through a piece of timber and bashed them in with a mallet. That mill lasted about a year before the chipboard I used for the base got wet and it fell apart. The bearings were still going strong at that point (in fact I think I still have them in the back room somewhere). My current mill uses pillow blocks. They are $30 if you walk in off the street but one of my mates ordered them up for me through his business, I got them for about $7 each. I did get a bit lucky with my current mill but I'm sure anyone who is willing to do a bit of scrounging could manage to get similar parts for very little cost. Work was throwing out some old shelves which became the frame, a mate had some marine ply that became the sides, base and lid, the guy that got me bearings also got me a pulley, old belts and heater hose (to cover the rollers) from my car and I have a decent pile of scrap metal (flat bar, angle iron, threaded rod, a gate hinge) collected over the years that made up all the extra little bits. What state are you in? I'm in WA, work is having a bit of a cleanup at the moment so I might be able to find a few bits and pieces.
Swede Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 Use a pair of pillow blocks for the driven bar, and pretty much anything (including caster or skateboard wheels) can make the idler side. That alone cuts much of the cost down. All-thread rods and nuts to provide longitudinal support, and a surplus motor. It really can be done for less than $30 to $50.
Arthur Posted May 12, 2010 Posted May 12, 2010 http://www.thegreenman.me.uk/tool/bm.html this mill has been rebuilt several times but the rollers were about £3 each including 250 kilo bearings! so a few £/$ for the motor still makes it really cheap and fully functional.
Pyropow3r Posted May 12, 2010 Author Posted May 12, 2010 What state are you in? I'm in WA, work is having a bit of a cleanup at the moment so I might be able to find a few bits and pieces. Nah that not really an option because i am in Tasmania.... You know that little island down the bottom right corner of Australia....
Pyropow3r Posted May 12, 2010 Author Posted May 12, 2010 Looks like i better get my ass into gear and build a ball mill.... I already have a 1/3 HP or 250 watt motor in the shed from an old drill press... it should be perfect has low rpm and great mounting feet.
Arthur Posted May 13, 2010 Posted May 13, 2010 Remember that a used skate board has four ball bearings, quite small but designed to carry a person so they should carry a mill jar. Look at everything in the local waste with a view to salvaging a part of it.
baran420 Posted May 14, 2010 Posted May 14, 2010 Looking on the bright side, We antipodean pyros have to be resourceful to be in the game. I was lucky? enough to be based in a small mining town in the WA outback and had access to the mine company dump. Wonders like you would never believe were being chucked out. Even the town dump was worth a look in. By necessity we have to be innovative in order to participate in our chosen hobby. That chlorate cell that you probably have running in your back shed is giving you a basic grounding in chemistry, electrical engineering, material science etc etc. If you lived in the US you could simply order several pounds of the stuff for peanuts. How better off are you!!!! Also even in the US powerful oxidisers are likely to become harder for the layman to obtain and then they too will have to start sourcing bags of KCl etc. You are already one step ahead of them.
jimbo Posted May 15, 2010 Posted May 15, 2010 I bought a ball mill from aussie sapphire about 3 weeks ago 6lb $330 bit expensive but the b.p it makes makes it worth it they had a second hand 15lb thumler for 375 + 30 for shipping to brisbane,not much more to most capital cities better to make your own if you want a decent size one but
scythe Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 And just another suggestion for the financially deprived would be to hit up automotive wreckers yards like Pick 'n' Payless or any other self serve wreckers yard.Just about every car in their yards that have motors will have at least 4 pulleys.All it will cost is a bit of time and elbow grease to remove the pulley, most of the time they will give you small items like that for free or a few dollars.
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