Optimizing Mail Orders within the US

[jwitt]

I bet I'm not the only rookie pyro that runs into trouble with mail order charges.

 

I've placed several orders over the last few months, but still haven't nailed down what ships with what, what requires some type of hazmat fee, etc.

 

Could someone help me (and others) out with this?

 

Generally speaking-

 

Oxidizers

Metal powders

Misc fuels, binders, coloring agents

Fuse

 

Let's place this order with Acme, the place Wily Coyote got his goodies from, before the days of high cost shipping.

 

KNO3

KClO4

NH4ClO4

 

Zn dust

MgAl

fine mesh bright Al

Dark Al

 

CuO

Sr(NO3)2

Parlon

Dextrin

Hexamine

Lampblack

 

Time fuse

Fast paper fuse

Visco

 

 

Well, we know that due to consumer protection type stuff, we can't order the dark Al and the KClO4 together...but how could one parse this order efficiently? Which things are ORM-D or subject to whatever other pain-in-the-rear charges? Could a box of oxidizers contain a roll of fuse? Or fuels/fuse?

 

I guess it's simple once it's figured out...

[gordohigh]

I think any alu powder is not able to be shipped with any oxidizer. You will need at least 2 boxes so get all your aluminum powders and magnalium, (or make your own magnalium), in one order and your oxidizers, carbonates, oxides and fuse in the other. I get most of my supplies from american pyro supply and had to order the alu in a seperate box but their fuse selection is not very good so I get all that stuff from pyrodirect.

 

As you shop around you will probably have several suppliers anyway because even with seperate shipping you will find fantastic deals on things that make it worth while. For instance Kno3 can be bought for under a dollar a pound at times from Cracker although skylighter had it recently for 2 bucks a pound with a minimum of 50 bucks or so on your order. You will probably use more of that than any other chem, at least I do.

 

If you order from skylighter, (I think you mentioned them in another thread) you may need several boxes because they have some serious restrictions and they are posted there. I think they go above and beyond to try to be safe and cover any grey area that maybe some other company may not. Just be responsable for your sake and the sake of others.

[jwitt]

Thanks for the advice. Having ordered from 3 or 4 suppliers so far, I've shot myself in the foot with shipping a couple times. I guess it's probably a common beginner mistake. Edited May 17, 2010 by jwitt

[Mumbles]

I don't know why you keep copying and pasting the same replies over and over again with only very minimal changes.

 

No one uses potassium perchlorate for weed killer. It's asinine to think so. You're thinking of sodium chlorate, and it's really not used in the US anymore. Ammonium Perchlorate is ALL bulk excess from the space industry. There are very few alternative resources for it, so you're not going to be able to get it for 1/10th the price anywhere by finding alternatives, only by buying in extreme bulk.

[dagabu]

I don't know why you keep copying and pasting the same replies over and over again with only very minimal changes.

I don't know why you keep copying and pasting the same replies over and over again with only very minimal changes..

I don't know why you keep copying and pasting the same replies over and over again with only very minimal changes...

I don't know why you keep copying and pasting the same replies over and over again with only very minimal changes....

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist

 

No one uses potassium perchlorate for weed killer. It's asinine to think so. You're thinking of sodium chlorate, and it's really not used in the US anymore. Ammonium Perchlorate is ALL bulk excess from the space industry. There are very few alternative resources for it, so you're not going to be able to get it for 1/10th the price anywhere by finding alternatives, only by buying in extreme bulk.

 

I think she meant Potasium Chlorate, it is a defoliant and a pestacide, Fegabit. Not used in the USA as you said.

The cheapest AP I can find is $6.00 a pound, I would love to get a drum for $.60 a pound!

Edited July 2, 2010 by dagabu

[dagabu]

Take nitrocellulose; buy it by the quart from Mohawk Finishing Company. Nitrocellulose lacquer is used to refinish guitars and other stringed instruments. Buy Behlen Stringed Instrument Lacquer. It is a far superior lacquer than any pyro vendor sells. It is the real deal. A quart of this needs to be diluted for pyro purposes. So, one quart of this lacquer equals about one gallon of the lacquer the pyro vendors sell. The cost?....I just bought a quart of it for $15 + shipping.

 

Hmmmm, I buy a pound 100% nitrocellulose fiber from Foxfire for $12.00, it is whetted with alcohol and shipped ORM-D. I open a brand new gallon of Acetone and pour the fiber into the container and after it dissolves, I have a 6:1 NCL gallon for $36.00.

 

Ingredients (after allowing the fiber to dry) Nitrocellulose and Acetone.

 

No, the Behlen NCL is no more then 9% Nitrocellulose, no need to dilute it very much.

Edited July 2, 2010 by dagabu

[Cookieman]

I think she meant Potasium Chlorate, it is a defoliant and a pestacide, Fegabit. Not used in the USA as you said.

The cheapest AP I can find is $6.00 a pound, I would love to get a drum for $.60 a pound!

 

 

Rocketman,

 

I hope you don't get offended if I call you that, I pay $5.00lb for AP -325m $5.00 for Kclo4 Dom./w anticake and $3.50lb for KNO3.

[dagabu]

Rocketman,

 

I hope you don't get offended if I call you that, I pay $5.00lb for AP -325m $5.00 for Kclo4 Dom./w anticake and $3.50lb for KNO3.

 

Cookie,

 

I will see your $3.50lb KNO3 and lower you by $2.50 a pound KNO3

 

I have paid more and less for my pot-perc though I will probably get a drum at PGI for about $2.00 a pound.

 

You got me beat with AP, I still cant find it at that price.

 

Offended, naw, the local cops call me that after I launched the kids Estes rockets with Hybrid motors in the park.

[Cookieman]

Cookie,

 

I will see your $3.50lb KNO3 and lower you by $2.50 a pound KNO3

 

I have paid more and less for my pot-perc though I will probably get a drum at PGI for about $2.00 a pound.

 

You got me beat with AP, I still cant find it at that price.

 

Offended, naw, the local cops call me that after I launched the kids Estes rockets with Hybrid motors in the park.

 

 

Thats a good price, The AP you can get it at American Pyro Supply only if you create a wholesale account and buy alot of stuff.

[dagabu]

Thats a good price, The AP you can get it at American Pyro Supply only if you create a wholesale account and buy alot of stuff.

 

That's why, I get mine there too but not enough at a time for the price break.

[Peret]

The cheapest AP I can find is $6.00 a pound, I would love to get a drum for $.60 a pound!

In southern Nevada it's free - we just have to turn on the tap. It's rather dilute, though. It's quicker to dig up a few buckets of sand and leach it out. Finest quality government surplus by Kerr-McGee.

[dagabu]

Very true.

But Foxfire wants your life history!

I refuse to release all the information they ask of me.

Times are bad enough; big brother seems to be everywhere; even in the pyro business.

Think; you order potassium perchlorate on one order, then black aluminum flake on another.

Now, it would seem to anyone that you are likely up to something.

And, you have supplied a lot of personal information.

True, as is, we all have a profile; why expand upon it?

Truly, I have heard from people that they have been "busted" for records showing you made such a purpose.

I am doubtful the Behlen lacquer I get is only 9%.

If I don't tame it down significantly; everything I try to mix is so sticky that I can hardly stir it.

Really, have you ever purchased it?

The kind that is mixed exclusively for stringed instruments?

There are many other lacquers under the brand of Behlen.

Thanks a lot for thinking upon my behalf.

Have a super great 4th!!!!

Ana

 

Dang!! A lot of ground to cover here, lets get cracking!!!!

 

But Foxfire wants your life history!

I refuse to release all the information they ask of me.

Times are bad enough; big brother seems to be everywhere; even in the pyro business.

Think; you order potassium perchlorate on one order, then black aluminum flake on another.

Now, it would seem to anyone that you are likely up to something.

And, you have supplied a lot of personal information.

True, as is, we all have a profile; why expand upon it?

True but my DNA, fingerprints and such are in various data bases due to my service, permits, licenses, etc. I fear nothing as I have taken the appropriate steps to be legal. I also do not ever buy my oxidizers where I buy my fuels.

 

Truly, I have heard from people that they have been "busted" for records showing you made such a purpose.

Proof?

 

I am doubtful the Behlen lacquer I get is only 9%.

If I don't tame it down significantly; everything I try to mix is so sticky that I can hardly stir it.

Really, have you ever purchased it?

I have used it to refinish a 64 Rickenbacker model 325, (dad was a Beatles fan, Johns was a Capri but they were all several $$$ thousands by the end of the 1960s) and my 1998 Les Paul 1959 reissue Sunburst by Gibson. Behlen is the best for instrumental re-coating and I have used it on my sons double Cremona Double Bass as part of a total rebuild. It has other ingredients that keep it from curing too fast and keeps it from ghosting or milking when drying (capturing water into the layer as it cures). It may be fine for pyro but I prefer the quick dry of Acetone.

 

The kind that is mixed exclusively for stringed instruments?

There are many other lacquers under the brand of Behlen.

A quick call to Rockler Woodworking yielded Behlens complete catalog and the MSDS show the solids content, tis true, MSDS lists the solids as 1-10% (propriety recipe allows for the variance).

 

I know that this all sounds like I am arguing with you but I am not. I just want you to know that there are lots of possibilities for harvesting useful ingredients and we share that information with each other freely and without prejudice so to take any particular stand on any one item is foolish. I have been keel-hauled here on occasion and I am the first to admit that I was wrong, it's no big deal, just accept the correction and go on. There is no need for ego here.

 

In southern Nevada it's free - we just have to turn on the tap. It's rather dilute, though. It's quicker to dig up a few buckets of sand and leach it out. Finest quality government surplus by Kerr-McGee.

 

You are that close to the old plant?

[Peret]

You are that close to the old plant?

No, I'd have to drive a ways to collect the sand. But we all get our water from the same place.

[dagabu]

Dang, sorry to hear that. Up here in God's country, we have been fortunate with very little chems in out water.

[Gunzway]

Very true.

But Foxfire wants your life history!

I refuse to release all the information they ask of me.

 

Does it actually matter? You gave everyone your life history in a nutshell without anyone even asking. You've given a description of what you look like, your full name, you have revealed you have four college degrees, that you own a company, your great grandparents are holocaust survivors, you write poems for both leisure and profit and you're probably going to say soon you dress up at night time and fight criminals. Provided all this information is true, all your details are accessible at a public forum and you would be a very easy person to locate.

[dagabu]

I do not doubt that what you are telling me is true about the lacquer. I do find it to dry slowly. I think I am going to make my own by going to the gun store and buying smokeless powder, buying a gallon of acetone and using a 2-10 ratio? Your thoughts on that?

 

Honestly, I think you are being over reactive and frankly, silly. Gun powder will cost you at minimum $25.00 for a single base smokeless that contains a host of impurities that while good for guns are horrible for pyrotechnics.

 

If you wish, I will get a pound of the NC fibers for you and send it to a PO BOX for you to pick up anonymously .

 

I wish you well and hope that indeed you are the 29 year old beauty you say you are because if you are really a 50 year old man taunting all of us, well, I for one would be very disappointed.

 

Seriously, take a breath, slow down, stop with all of the internet factoids that you are spewing, stop pretending. I think we can all handle the truth and still respect you for who you are... who ever you are.

[TheSidewinder]

See my warning in another post, folks. Then heed it.