DragonsKing Posted April 27, 2010 Posted April 27, 2010 I was wondering about the ATF explosives manufacturing license and i have done a little research about it, but again, all the information surrounding whether or not you need one or if it would be worthwhile to get are a little "gray". I know that it will make it easier to get a hold of some chemicals and give a persona little more "respect" if you will, concerning the work that he/she does with fireworks. Now the question that i have, should i get one? What are some of the things that would make it so that i would need to get one? Does anyone have anymore specifics on this topic? perhaps how to get one, the uses, the requirements,etc. Thanks
pyrochris732 Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 I was wondering about the ATF explosives manufacturing license and i have done a little research about it, but again, all the information surrounding whether or not you need one or if it would be worthwhile to get are a little "gray". I know that it will make it easier to get a hold of some chemicals and give a persona little more "respect" if you will, concerning the work that he/she does with fireworks. Now the question that i have, should i get one? What are some of the things that would make it so that i would need to get one? Does anyone have anymore specifics on this topic? perhaps how to get one, the uses, the requirements,etc. Thanks from what i was told and read, federally speaking you can make whatever you want. As soon as you store a device (which is almost always class b since you made it) without a license then you are breaking the law. They have storage chambers call magazines which you have to get to store them. But, state and local laws have to be adhered to so thats the grey area of course. You could probably break the local laws easily even if you have a BATFE license. I could be wrong so somebody who knows more about this please chime in.
Twotails Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 The easyest way is to fine, or buy a copy of the current BATF Orange book. It detailes what you need to know.
dagabu Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 from what i was told and read, federally speaking you can make whatever you want. As soon as you store a device (which is almost always class b since you made it) without a license then you are breaking the law. They have storage chambers call magazines which you have to get to store them. But, state and local laws have to be adhered to so thats the grey area of course. You could probably break the local laws easily even if you have a BATFE license. I could be wrong so somebody who knows more about this please chime in. The BATFE is kind of changing its Orange Book to web downloads. OK, look at the book first but to iron things out a little. From the federal perspective in the US:-A hobbyist can make fireworks AND store them on their own property (single family dwelling with approved distances) as long as an APROVABLE magazine is used. (bulk reports still require a Type 1 magazine).-You cannot get a BATFE license until the locals are notified of your intent as you are required to provide a letter from the local Fire Marshall.-EVERYTHING you make pyrotechnicaly is Class B. Add a quick match to a C cake, its now Class B. Make a sparkler, its now Class B.-A Type 4 magazine is the easiest to make and can hold up to 50 pounds or fireworks (not including paper, glue, string etc. 50 pounds of energetic materials) D
DragonsKing Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 ok ,well that all pretty much confirms what it is that i was thinking, now what is a "magazine? and how does one make one and/or buy one? Does storing things include the storing of BP and the chemicals to make it?
DragonsKing Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 In response to my own question i found this to be interesting... " Is black powder subject to regulation under Federal explosives laws?Black powder is an explosive material for purposes of Federal explosives laws and regulations. However, the law exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds (as well as percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers) intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempted from the term “destructive device” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4). However, persons engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in black powder in any quantity must have a Federal explosives license. [18 U.S.C. 841©, 841(d), 845(a)(5); 27 CFR 555.11: definitions of “explosives” and “explosive materials”, 555.141(]"Quoted directly from the ATF orange book.. Now does this mean that i can store these items without a magazine? this is confusing to me. I mean if i have less than 10lbs of materials, which at the moment i will have less than 3lbs of components, then does that mean that i can store them? I just want to be sure that i am not getting in over my head and following all the laws that i should. I would also question if i bought a safe of just a small size, if i could use that as a small storage box for just a few pounds of my "explosive" materials. And to further elaborate on my question, If i have KNO3, Charcoal and Sulfur, but i only make as much black powder as i use it, do these rules apply? thanks guys.
dagabu Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) In response to my own question i found this to be interesting... " Is black powder subject to regulation under Federal explosives laws?Black powder is an explosive material for purposes of Federal explosives laws and regulations. However, the law exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds (as well as percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers) intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempted from the term "destructive device" in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4). However, persons engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in black powder in any quantity must have a Federal explosives license. [18 U.S.C. 841©, 841(d), 845(a)(5); 27 CFR 555.11: definitions of "explosives" and "explosive materials", 555.141(]"Quoted directly from the ATF orange book.. Now does this mean that i can store these items without a magazine? this is confusing to me. I mean if i have less than 10lbs of materials, which at the moment i will have less than 3lbs of components, then does that mean that i can store them? I just want to be sure that i am not getting in over my head and following all the laws that i should. I would also question if i bought a safe of just a small size, if i could use that as a small storage box for just a few pounds of my "explosive" materials. And to further elaborate on my question, If i have KNO3, Charcoal and Sulfur, but i only make as much black powder as i use it, do these rules apply? thanks guys. Everything is subject to BATFE interpretation: "Commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds." Homemade BP is not part of this guideline and must be stored in a magazine as well. Yes, all of the above do not have to be stored in a magazine, just the homemade stuff. Unless, state or local laws differ. Remember, the tougher law prevails. Also, if you DO NOT use it solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms, you can run afoul of the law. If asked, its for the canon you have under your desk, and I have a canon just for that purpose. No, any amount of fireworks you MAKE or components there of, MUST be stored in a magazine approveable by the BATFE, even an ounce. No, safes usually do not have a three point lock, most use a two point lock. A simple Job-Box (look on CraigsList) that is lined with 1/4" plywood with glue and two approved locks can be used to make a magazine. These need a variance if applying for a license. They must have pocket type lock recepticles and the mag needs to be bolted to the ground with no space for a pry-bar underneath. Under FEDERAL LAW only: If you make black powder, make a shell, quick match, stars, fuse, flash, lift etc... all in the same day and fire it that day, no need to store it. You cannot drive it off your property, and you may need a permit but as far as the BATFE goes, you are fine. Finally, do not confuse chemicals with compounds. If you mix KNO3, sulfur and charcoal, you have an energetic compound, it needs a magazine. If the chems are not mixed, you can store them just about anywhere. Keep in mind that oxidizers and fuels need to be separated by 12 feet. D Edited April 28, 2010 by dagabu
DragonsKing Posted April 28, 2010 Author Posted April 28, 2010 ok, that sounds about right to me. I am only making the amount of composition that i use that day anyways, so i shouldnt have to worry. About stars and mines, those are still an "energetic" composition correct? therefore, the must be stored in a safe place aka a magazine? well, i am sure there are some grey aareas here, and i looked up the price of a 3x3x3 ATF certified type 2 box and it was over $3500 so needless to say, i am NOT buying one. if anyone has a suggestions on how to make a simple, moveable, and effective magazine, the information would be greatly appreciated. I am doing steady research on how to make one, but outside information is always helpful.thanks again guys
dagabu Posted April 28, 2010 Posted April 28, 2010 Take a look here for one up here in the north. You are looking for job box, steel, two places for locks. Should run $150.00 used in good shape. Yes, EVERYTHING you make using chemicals that will burn, smoke, create heat etc is considered pyrotechnic in nature and must be stored according to the BATFE in a magazine.
DragonsKing Posted April 29, 2010 Author Posted April 29, 2010 Thank, that give me a little more insight as to what i am looking for!
DragonsKing Posted April 30, 2010 Author Posted April 30, 2010 Can someone maybe tell me what it means to be able to "manufacture under" someones ATFE License? I am going to be joining the small, but tight knit Alabama Pyrotechnics Guild and i was informed that the owner would be "happy to have me making fireworks under his license". thanks guys.
Mumbles Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 It means he is going to list you as an "employee possessor" on the license. You'll still need a background check done, but once it's cleared you'll be licensed in every sense of the word. I don't know what the exact difference is, but you should have all the same rights to manufacture, transport, and test your material he does. Now, you'll still have to adhere to storage, distance, and usage laws.
DragonsKing Posted May 2, 2010 Author Posted May 2, 2010 kool, thanks for the info. i am sure that i will learn more about that from him when i see him. I just went to a fireworks show and a guy offered me a job, training and everything for woking on, transporting and actually doing fireworks shows. I got a few things to do before i can get started in that, but a great opportunity!
NightHawkInLight Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 It's fantastic post. I would like to thank you for this article. I surely shall inform my friends too about this and promote your thoughts, you and your ideas. Many thanks for discussing about it.This is really admired for the great info is visible in this forums and the different services. You can find more info regarding a manufacturers license in the thread shown here: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/6271-steps-toward-legal-manufacture-transportation-and-storage/
TheSidewinder Posted December 18, 2011 Posted December 18, 2011 That was a Spammer, NHIL. They had a link to some Chinese site in their sig, so..... they're gone.
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