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why dont BATF target these people?


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Posted

have any of you seen some of the videos on youtube? How stupid are these kids?! You see "flash powder bomb" or "pipe bomb" all over the place. My question is, why dont the federal govt track down these people's IP's and arrest them? There is solid court evidence in these videos that people are making explosives just for the purpose of blowing objects up. AND IT IS TOLERATED!!! Do you know how many 200-400 gram "flash powder bombs" you can find with a search of youtube? These same people might as well take videos of them growing huge marijuana gardens or something like that, while theyre at it.

 

Plus, its exactly these people who are going to make Pyro impossible in the future.

 

Can anyone provide some insight here?

Posted
Yep Chris..I'm with ya 110%! And on top of all that..The tube take's down legit video's of awesome shell's and mine's ect..But oh no..It's just fine to have video's of 12 or 13 year old children making and playing with crap that would leave chunk's of there body's all over the place if some thing where to go wrong...U-tube may just be run by a bunch of moronic crap tossing chimp's..I just don't get it at all.
Posted

exactly.. like dont federal agencies have a unit that deals entirely with internet content? You would think "pipe bomb" would spark IMMEDIATE reporting and responding of all kinds of enforcement. If they want to crack down on flash powder kewl bomberz (or whatever you guys call it) its right under their god damn noses.

 

Was Columbine not enough? But no, they will end up going after pyro suppliers and then the responsible people get screwed. Ridiculous

Posted

U-tube may just be run by a bunch of moronic crap tossing chimp's..I just don't get it at all.

That just might be it, seeing, what they did to audio.

Posted
The trouble is that many of the miscreants are legal minors -children, This makes it almost impossible to prosecute them or sentence them to anything appropriate.
Posted

The trouble is that many of the miscreants are legal minors -children, This makes it almost impossible to prosecute them or sentence them to anything appropriate.

 

 

the fact that theyre minors should make no difference. If anything, you have to worry even more due to them bringing these things into schools. Anybody of any age can be prosecuted. If they are old enough to build a device, they are old enough to prosecute.

 

I think that at a minimum, these idiot youtube owners should be required to ban illegal content. Imagine how many less accidents will occur if that happened.

Posted

I think that at a minimum, these idiot youtube owners should be required to ban illegal content. Imagine how many less accidents will occur if that happened.

 

I don't think taking youtube down completely would have much impact on the numbers of accidents.

Posted

Think a campaign of flagging these videos would be beneficial?

 

Letter writing campaign to youtube regarding removing legitimate pyrotechnic videos and letting friggin' vids of minors with pipe bombs remain? Or one letter with many signatures?

 

Prolly wouldn't do any good, but I don't know the history of youtube's apparent campaign against pyrotechnic arts.

Posted

I think it would be easy for them to distinguish between what legit pyro people are doing and "bombs." I guess it would still be hard to have regular pyro on there if they removed all bomberz. Still you read about how adamant the govt is about cracking down on flash devices and the cpsc having stringent rules, but they still allow this to go on?? And you know these little bastards are showing them off at school.

 

Look, i think many of us have been whoa'd by the power and report of a salute and may have even made one or 2 in the past, but these kids are making us look really bad right now. They arent doing it for the noise alone, they are doing it for the destructive power (at least from the videos i saw). Thats what seperates pyro from bomb making IMO.

 

Just something to think about. Thanks for the good replies! Oh, and i dont mean to offend some of you younger guys.. a few of you are legit and very knowledgeable.

 

Chris

Posted

As I've told many who have come to me asking how not to get their videos removed, make them look professional, and keep words such as 'homemade' out of the title. Take a daylight shot of your shooting grounds before you go to the night shot to show you are in a safe area. I've seen dozens of videos of fireworks being lit behind dumpsters in an alley and then the user complaining that the video was removed. If what is being done in the video even hints at being illegal or irresponsible at first glance, it will be removed. Make sure it is clear that your videos are legitimate, or at least look that way.

 

As to videos of pipeb*mbs and the like, flag them. That's the best you can do. If they are truly giving us all a very bad name and your own flagging does no good, send me a link and a flag from myself usually takes them down.

 

When your own videos are removed, sure it sucks, but in reality there is no room to complain. In 99.9% of cases, though the video might have been about legitimate homemade pyrotechnic devices, they were still illegally fired. Do you not only have your type 54, but did you also pull a permit to use your 1oz class B bottle rocket? Doubtful. If not, it's no more or less illegal to use then a pipeb*mb, regardless of the harmless intent.

Posted (edited)

I'm typically a "live and let live" type, but after spending part of lunch browsing through some of the videos I've seen in the sidebar before but never bothered with...I'm amazed. I guess I'm getting old- I thought "by golly, back in my day we weren't so friggin' dumb." Pipes? Short fuses? Video taping? #$@%^&!!!

 

The next thing you know, one of these idiots is going to blow their friend or themselves to smithereens.

 

And guess what? The media usually reports stories about legitimate fireworks as "dangerous explosives" but as soon as some kid has an accident with their improvised weapons, it will be reported as "the dangers of homemade fireworks"

 

Flagged about 15 videos, all showing pipe casings and horribly unsafe practices. We'll see what happens. Some of 'em even mentioned legitimate suppliers who I'm sure would not be thrilled by the free advert.

 

Good tips for videos, but when I record my shells for the 4th, I'm not putting the video on youtube anyway...heading to pyrobin.

Edited by jwitt
Posted

thanks guys... the flagging is a good idea.

 

 

Posted
These same people might as well take videos of them growing huge marijuana gardens or something like that, while theyre at it.

 

And those videos are on youtube too!!!!

 

I think Nighthawk has summed it up well.

Posted
sure you could end up in court over a class b rocket but i dont think a judge is going to come close to looking at a pipe bomb the same way as a rocket. I think there would be no lienancy whatsoever with a 200g pipe bomb.
Posted

sure you could end up in court over a class b rocket but i dont think a judge is going to come close to looking at a pipe bomb the same way as a rocket. I think there would be no lienancy whatsoever with a 200g pipe bomb.

Yes, the legal penalties would likely be different, but they are both illegal, and therefore complaints of removal of videos are on shaky ground. The only real argument is that other videos that are more dangerous are left standing, but that's like a 5 yr old complaining that he got in trouble when another kid did something worse but didn't get caught.

 

Consider this: YouTube of course doesn't want videos of dangerous and illegal activity on their site, but a video of a kid making a big boom is not something they are likely to themselves get in legal trouble for hosting. They will get rid of it if it is brought to their attention, but they cannot search through every category of video and themselves weed out the good from the bad. Remember, there are more than fireworks videos on YouTube which would also need screening (such as removing racist and particularly vulgar or offensive content). Too much of their time is taken up removing porn - Which they could get in legal trouble for hosting.

 

This is why flagging is important, to bring to their attention the dangerous videos amongst the mass of content too large to sift through. Also, think of all the false flagging that happens in a single day, on more than fireworks content. You gotta cut em some slack when a video is removed without due cause. Imagine sitting all day screening videos you are not interested in watching. Every once in a while I'm sure anyone would miss the points of safety shown in videos and take them for dangerous, especially when they have no knowledge of the subject.

 

And that my friends, is why I don't complain when my videos are flagged.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

There are other things on youtube that are helping to destroy our hobby, like the one I just watched of a guy hand holding the mortar, and another of a ball shell that hung and the guy walks over and sticks his head over the tube to look in there. Unfortunately I don't know if flagging those will help or hurt us.

 

As was mentioned, show as much safety as possible and shoot from properly built mortars that aren't just a pvc tube leaning next to a few branches, like I also saw a few days ago.

Posted

I got my wife to do a full day of Practical Field Craft yesterday and even though she is tired and grumpy, when we blew up the 24 gun pod with an up-side-down 3" salute that knocked my camera over, threw two pieces of re-rod 50' and a 1' x 2" x 2" chunk of hard wood over 150 feet, she became a real believer in safety.

 

We could all be so lucky to have our spouses do pyro with us!

Posted

Ah yes.

 

We had a 4-inch "some-kinda-single-break-shell with salute(s)" that got loaded upside down a couple years back at a WPAG shoot.

 

Fortunately, it was in an HDPE gun, buried in a plastic barrel filled with fine sand, so no debris of dangerous size got thrown too far.

 

And everyone nearby realized what had happened when the lift went off (it sounded just plain.... "wrong"), so were able to scramble behind the barrier JUST as the blast happened. The barrier got thumped by the gun fragments and some of the plastic barrel pieces. Needless to say, the barrel was ruined and the sand previously in it was nowhere to be found.

 

I think there's a pic of what's left of the gun still floating around somewhere.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
Well, I agree but in regards to the BATF coming down on these people making " Giant " flash bombs and throwing videos up on youtube....They wouldn't bat an eye. Now I am not familiar with the videos but unless the people are lighting these devices off in a manner which could be deemed destructive or throw harmful particles...OR letting said items enter commerce ( Selling them ) or improper storage there really is not much the ATF can do.<br><br>Sounds silly I know...But any one of us could make a 200 gram flash salute...Now it takes a moron to make a flash salute THAT large B: Use a pipe...Which is actually listed underneath the code of federal regulations as a crime...unless it's used as a sealed underwater...etc etc....<br><br>Unfortunatly these idiots will be around for quite a while...and the moment the ATF does start caring about homemade flash salutes/pipe bombs....We all need to worry.<br><br>I am not picking sides, but I've been in this business long enough to know that out of these two scenerios someone is going to jail.<br><br>1: ATF views video of someone sticking 200 grams of mixed flash in there garage and going to sleep.<br><br>2: ATF views video of moron making ( Legal ) a 200g flash salute; Discharging ( without criminal intent ) a 200g flash salute.<br><br>DING DING! The winner happens to be statement #1!!!! Edited by Gossettc68
Posted

Well, I agree but in regards to the BATF coming down on these people making " Giant " flash bombs and throwing videos up on youtube....They wouldn't bat an eye. Now I am not familiar with the videos but unless the people are lighting these devices off in a manner which could be deemed destructive or throw harmful particles...OR letting said items enter commerce ( Selling them ) or improper storage there really is not much the ATF can do.

 

Sounds silly I know...But any one of us could make a 200 gram flash salute...Now it takes a morong to A: Make a flash salute THAT large B: Use a pipe...

 

Unfortunatly these idiots will be around for quite a while...and the moment the ATF does start caring about homemade flash salutes/pipe bombs....We all need to worry.

 

I am not picking sides, but I've been in this business long enough to know that out of these two scenerios someone is going to jail.

 

1: ATF views video of someone sticking 200 grams of mixed flash in there garage and going to sleep.

 

2: ATF views video of moron making ( Legal ) a 200g flash salute; Discharging ( without criminal intent ) a 200g flash salute.

 

DING DING! The winner happens to be statement #1!!!!

 

 

thats interesting. I know that through federal eyes, you can make anything as long as you dont store it (if not liscensed). In my opinion though, i would never put my business (flash powder i mean) on video like that. I like boomers myself but im pretty paranoid when it comes to authorities.

 

I got my wife to do a full day of Practical Field Craft yesterday and even though she is tired and grumpy, when we blew up the 24 gun pod with an up-side-down 3" salute that knocked my camera over, threw two pieces of re-rod 50' and a 1' x 2" x 2" chunk of hard wood over 150 feet, she became a real believer in safety.

 

We could all be so lucky to have our spouses do pyro with us!

 

 

you are a lucky man! Why cant I find a lady like that!?

Posted

Oh, thats only the half of it, she builds shells, supports me in my building, is bringing the kids to PGI and is helping with the JPA (junior pyro association) all week. She even bought me (us really) some anti gravity chairs so that we can lay flat in them and look straight up at PGI for the week.

 

She yells at me when I sneak off to launch rockets because she doesn't get to see them.

 

Oh, she is one of a kind!

Posted

Oh, thats only the half of it, she builds shells, supports me in my building, is bringing the kids to PGI and is helping with the JPA (junior pyro association) all week. She even bought me (us really) some anti gravity chairs so that we can lay flat in them and look straight up at PGI for the week.

 

She yells at me when I sneak off to launch rockets because she doesn't get to see them.

 

Oh, she is one of a kind!

 

 

 

off topic but can anyone go to this PGI thing? Its basically a big firework show right?

Posted

VERY, its pretty much the biggest thing out there. Go to the website, its just too much to describe. I have yet to go though, take it from one of the members.

 

Though you have to be 18 to register or register with a parent.

Posted

It's more than just a big fireworks show. The shows are at night, but the day is full of seminars, vending, and all sorts of other fun stuff. Anyone can attend the shows in the evenings (every night except thursday), if they pay the admission price. The last time I checked, it was around $10 per night, maybe $15 on the big nights. If you're not a PGI member, you can't attend the fun stuff during the day. It's already too late to join to attend. You might be able to call Robin Cleveland though, and get an exception though.

 

I've been to Appleton, and Fargo. They're a lot of fun.

Posted (edited)

It's more than just a big fireworks show. The shows are at night, but the day is full of seminars, vending, and all sorts of other fun stuff. Anyone can attend the shows in the evenings (every night except thursday), if they pay the admission price. The last time I checked, it was around $10 per night, maybe $15 on the big nights. If you're not a PGI member, you can't attend the fun stuff during the day. It's already too late to join to attend. You might be able to call Robin Cleveland though, and get an exception though.

 

I've been to Appleton, and Fargo. They're a lot of fun.

 

Sorry Mumbles, the deadline is July 1st this year. It was June 1st last year and Robin let anyone in (she did me). There are also late slots available with no end date. There are even some admissions going to be granted the Saturday before as well.

 

Brain fart, I was thinking the convention, sorry. Robin is still taking membership applications but you had better get a member to vouch for you.

 

I will be teaching the Introduction to Timed Reports on Tuesday in the small teaching tent at the track.

Edited by dagabu
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