Help a Newbie.. Please...

[Gunzway]

Whistle has a brisiance almost equal to flash.

 

Just for the heads up, arguably flash powder is more dangerous than whistle mix.

 

From what I know, whistle is probably more friction sensitive than flash. They're about the same in terms as shock goes. But flash is more susceptible to static, although whistle is also pretty sensitive to it. Now, as long as you're not a complete moron and don't start grinding flash powder and whistle mix or do something that is very friction inducing; you probably could call that criteria void when applying good preparation techniques.

 

Static electricity is another element that can also be monitored and basically taken care of. I would think that there's a greater likelihood for someone to apply common sense and not put these energetic mixtures into high friction conditions than to put anti-static spray on, ground themselves, keep humidity monitored etc. As said yourself, whistle has a 'brisiance' (Ignoring the fact 'brisiance' doesn't appear in the English dictionary.) almost equal to flash. Well, that's not equal.

 

Both of them are very powerful and dangerous. But you really didn't give me any reasons to make me believe that whistle is in fact more dangerous than flash powder. I could link a video of the detonation of Nitromethane and its power. That's not going to say it's more dangerous than anything else, as it actually requires a lot of energy for that to happen. Dangerous isn't just the mere power of a composition as you would know, but the aspects such as sensitivity and stability.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Gunzway

[dagabu]

"Ignoring the fact 'brisiance' doesn't appear in the English dictionary."

 

Sorry Lord poopy-pants (pick on the dumb guy that cant spell)

 

Brisance

 

Tough crowd...

[pyrochris732]

should i also add that making flash powder in an amount bigger than a firecracker requires federal liscense? I think in aerials its 130 mg... which is a dusting of flash, lol.

 

If anyone can elaborate on that, id be interested to know for sure.

[Mumbles]

Well, there is a gray area here. Making any flash for homemade fireworks requires a license since it is all class B material by default. Unless you plan to go through the class C approval process. As I understand it, you're allowed to do so legally assuming you're not storing it, or at least storing it in an ATF approvable magazine. I say approvable, because it would have to meet code and inspection, but doesn't actually need to be approved. You also cannot be selling it, transferring it to a non-licensed individual, or transport it.

 

For class C, the aerial limit is 130mg, and for ground devices it's 50mg. Something tells me that the chinese use the same trick some of the people in my club use. We have (or had), a 100g of flash bottom shot limit. There isn't anything stopping you from using 100g of flash............and 900g of whistle.

[DragonsKing]

Well everyone, I have enough components to make 2lbs of black powder on the way. I am looking to make a few small rockets and fountains. If you guys could give me any ideas as to what i should start out with, that would be great. I am not sure on what would be my best bet for a starter. I am working on just some KNO3+Sugar rockets right now, not sure how well these are going to turn out, as all the sources i find dont say anything else needs to be added to the mix, but i cant seem to get the lift i need. I am going to do more test and maybe upload some videos. Im thinking about making my own Youtube channel if i can figure out how, to show my progress and to get some feedback. Again, if anyone has some beginners projects with just black powder, That would be great. Lastly, i have two questions, What Mesh screen should i be trying to use to "grain" my BP? and what is the best way to prep my BP so that i can "grain" it? Dextrin? 75% water 25% alcohol? Just curious.. Thanks guys

[dagabu]

As I understand it, you're allowed to do so legally assuming you're not storing it, or at least storing it in an ATF approvable magazine.

 

For class C, the aerial limit is 130mg, and for ground devices it's 50mg.

 

Federally, you can make fireworks as a hobbyist and the ATF could care less as long as you have a proper magazine and you follow the rules regarding them. In Minnesota, the state has all but adopted the AFT's position on hobby manufacture but thay have reduced the BP from 50# to 20# unless it is in a magazine.

 

Flash is a greased pig, if you store it in a container (not finished firework) it can be interpreted as IED making materials (see the January arrest of the Wisconsin man) and if that is all there are in your mag (reports) they need to be stored in a class II magazine.

 

Just so everyone understands, like Mumbles said, if you just make a 2oz rocket, it is Class B so are ALL stars you make, even green meal is Class B. If its pyro and you made it, its Class B.

 

While speaking with the ATF guys that came to PGI last summer, I asked them how far the Class B thing went and they both agreed that if you prime time fuse or visco or add either to a paper disk or tube, it is now Class B.

 

There is much, much more...

 

Dave

[jwitt]

*TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT* because I'm new here. But this information should be totally accurate.

 

~~~BP~~~

 

The proper term for making BP "mill dust" into "grains" is "ricing" the BP.

 

If you're making BP for lift, it would be nice to have screens in 4, 10, and 20 mesh, but you can do with less- it's just that grading out the different sizes won't be possible.

 

So, you take your BP mill dust (right out of the mill jar) and bind it with the solvent/binder combination of your choice. Generally, this means water/dextrin or alcohol/red gum. You will want to research both methods, and how to use the binders. Exact proportions are important for strength and burn characteristics, as well as when/how they are added.

 

Once you have a "putty ball" of BP, wetted to a proper consistency, you push it through a screen. I did some early experiments and found a "cheese grater" motion works better than simply pushing straight down on the screen. Rice the BP onto paper for drying. Let it dry in a safe location.

 

Now, if you don't have an assortment of screens, you might rice through a 10 mesh. Some of your stuff is going to be smaller. That's where the 20 mesh would be handy- you can separate sizes this way, and when finished, your graded powder won't have dust in it. That dust can then be collected for coating onto rice hulls for burst.

 

~~~Rocket stuff~~~

 

I have done no research into rockets, but one thing I do know- heating sugar/KNO3 fuel can be dangerous!!! It can overheat and burn the ever-living crap out of you if it goes up. Start researching ways to make this fuel with safety in mind- beware, some information on the internet is not accurate or safe- I've seen several glaring errors on various sites, and if a rookie can pick 'em out, that's pretty bad. Stick to research in books, this site, and passfire if you become a member.

Edited April 26, 2010 by jwitt

[dagabu]

 

~~~Rocket stuff~~~

 

I have done no research into rockets, but one thing I do know- heating sugar/KNO3 fuel can be dangerous!!! It can overheat and burn the ever-living crap out of you if it goes up. Start researching ways to make this fuel with safety in mind- beware, some information on the internet is not accurate or safe- I've seen several glaring errors on various sites, and if a rookie can pick 'em out, that's pretty bad. Stick to research in books, this site, and passfire if you become a member.

 

James Yawn's site is very good with RCandy rockets, it is accurate and safe (as it can be). You are right that it can go up in flame but if you follow the directions and use a theremometer, wear leather, gloves, face shield, you will be fine in a fire (outside only).

 

All in all, RCandy is as safe as BP.

 

D

[jwitt]

~~~Beginner Projects~~~

 

Reading the Turbo Pyro book is a great idea. There are some simple projects there. If I were you, I'd make a small batch of BP and rice it. Then try a small batch of cut stars, to get a handle on how the comp behaves as you wet it and otherwise process it. If I'm not mistaken, Turbo Pyro has instructions on building a mine. Sounds like a cool place to start, requiring only a ball mill, visco, a tube for the mine, and a few other odds and ends that are necessary for pyrotechnics.

Edited April 26, 2010 by jwitt

[DragonsKing]

Well, i have made my first successful launch of a KNO3+Sugar rocket. I didnt heat up the materials, as i do not know how or what it is that your suppose to do with it. I only took the KNO3+Sugar and ground it together in a mortar and pestle and made a really fine powder that i packed down into my rocket tube. I think it went really well overall. I am going to be looking into making my own channel on youtube, and if anyone has any insight as to how to do that, it would be greatly appreciated. If anyone wants to view my HD video, i have attached it within this post. I would love to get some feedback and see what some others may think of it. Dont mind the voices of my friends in the background . Anyways, there is no mention within the TurboPyro as to how one makes a comet. I have read and watched the entire ebook already. anyways, i am please with how well my un-heated KNO3+sugar rocket performed for it being my first successful launch.

[KruseMissile]

Here are some other things you may need...

syringes(cut the tips off and you can use them as cheap star pumps)

assorted sized dowels(1/4",1/2" and 3/4" are pretty basic)(for ramming rockets and rolling tubes)

kraft paper(for making tubes)

bentonite clay(for nozzles)

skewers(for bottle rocket sticks)

flour(im sure you have it, but you can use it to paste shells and to roll tubes)

 

That's all I can think of right now, but I know there are other things.

 

Brian

[DragonsKing]

Here are some other things you may need...

syringes(cut the tips off and you can use them as cheap star pumps)

assorted sized dowels(1/4",1/2" and 3/4" are pretty basic)(for ramming rockets and rolling tubes)

kraft paper(for making tubes)

bentonite clay(for nozzles)

skewers(for bottle rocket sticks)

flour(im sure you have it, but you can use it to paste shells and to roll tubes)

 

That's all I can think of right now, but I know there are other things.

 

Brian

 

I have just about all that right now. I didn't think of the syringes.. 0.o good idea tho. I don't have kraft paper yet, i am going to invest in that soon and some skewers. Thanks for the advice.

Does anyone have a composition that i could use for black powder fountains that glitter/sparkle or something? I have heard mention of using baking soda, but i dont know how much or what it will do or if the information was even correct. i know that they exist but the only formula that i have/can find is just for mixing the BP a little different. If the BP has to be "Riced" ( i believe that's the right term)could you mention a screen mesh size? I am still getting use to the different FA sizes that come out of different screens.Thanks!

Edited April 27, 2010 by DragonsKing

[pyrochris732]

what happened with the wisconsin man in january who was arrested?

[Mumbles]

Any sort of pipe really will work for a star pump. I prefer copper pipe or PVC personally as it is easier to come by in bulk. Once you get settled and building more frequently, it's difficult to go at it 1 star at a time. With copper or PVC you can connect many pieces together at once and gang pump them.

 

Glittering or sparkling fountains will require metal of some sort. Generally aluminum, but iron, steel, and titanium all make interesting effects. You may want to get established with BP/charcoal type compositions first. Glittering fountains generally require a few more chemicals, and are less lenient to deal with. They are notorious for blowing up from excess slag inside the device. Once you make good charcoal or simple metal fountains, you will better be able to move onto the more complex ones.

 

As far as what mesh to rice BP at, it depends what you want to do with it. Since it sounds like you'll be starting small, you may want to go with a little finer than normal. Push through a 12 or 16 mesh or so to start with maybe? It's hard to tell really.

 

If you want a little more thrust to your sugar rockets you may consider adding a catalyst, or longer core. Iron Oxide is a pretty common catalyst. Melting the components will also help.

[DragonsKing]

 

As far as what mesh to rice BP at, it depends what you want to do with it. Since it sounds like you'll be starting small, you may want to go with a little finer than normal. Push through a 12 or 16 mesh or so to start with maybe? It's hard to tell really.

 

If you want a little more thrust to your sugar rockets you may consider adding a catalyst, or longer core. Iron Oxide is a pretty common catalyst. Melting the components will also help.

 

Ok, so i am going to be starting with BP rockets, sugar rockets and fountains, so i guess that would be the range of mesh i would need to be using. Just as a reference, what FA is that? Do i use that same "riced" BP inside both fountains and rockets or should i use a just BP powder? Can i use both, not together but on different projects? One final question for now, how does one go about melting the components for a sugar rocket? Can i melt just KNO3+Sugar? if so, how would you go about making back into a form that can be used inside a rocket? Just break it down and mill it again? I gather that this is just to further blend the composition, correct?

Thanks for the assistance, yet again and i hope tha ti am not driving anyone insane. I just want to make sure that i have as much knowledge about what it is that i am working with beforehand. I will be done asking so many questions soon.

[mike_au]

Do i use that same "riced" BP inside both fountains and rockets or should i use a just BP powder?

Some people rice their rocket/fountain fuel (without a binder) in order to keep the dust down. Personally, I suspect that riced fuel is slightly harder to consolidate into a single grain, not a problem if you have a press, but all my rockets are rammed so I just live with the dust.

 

Can i use both, not together but on different projects?

Sure give it a shot, the worse thing that could happen is a CATO. Make sure you are testing in a large area and no one is near it when it goes off.

 

how does one go about melting the components for a sugar rocket? Can i melt just KNO3+Sugar? if so, how would you go about making back into a form that can be used inside a rocket? Just break it down and mill it again? I gather that this is just to further blend the composition, correct?

Do a google search for James/Jimmy Yawn. He is a sugar rocket guru and has quite a few articles on how to make the fuel.

 

I've never gotten into sugar rocketry myself, but I have made a few KNO3/sugar/wax smoke b*mbs, for those I melt the sugar and wax together, then turn off the heat and add finely milled KNO3. I wouldn't be surprised if this method is no good for rockets, but it might be worth a shot since it eliminates the possibility of overheating the mixture.

 

I just want to make sure that i have as much knowledge about what it is that i am working with beforehand. I will be done asking so many questions soon.

In this hobby it is always a better idea to ask questions than not, learning from other people's mistakes is a lot nicer than learning from your own (although the ones you make yourself tend to stick with you a little more).

[jwitt]

One final question for now, how does one go about melting the components for a sugar rocket? Can i melt just KNO3+Sugar? if so, how would you go about making back into a form that can be used inside a rocket? Just break it down and mill it again?

 

NEVER mill a live composition except for BP. That's what I've gathered anyway.

 

If you melt the sugar and stir in your KNO3, my understanding is that you load it into the rocket tube while it's soft.

 

DO read plenty about it. Search the forum, and with the pull-down menu, select "sort by relevance" or the like. A good thing about this forum is that there are so many experienced members- if someone posts inaccurate information, it tends to get caught and corrected fairly quickly.

 

That rocket in your video made me want to make some once I get done with my current project. But- it's a very bad idea to test so close to your house, with people so near. Before you know it, a rocket will blow up (CATO). You also have to watch things like balancing the rocket's weight so it doesn't turn sideways.

 

It's always best to go into something like this overly cautious and be able to relax after you are experienced than to go in too casually and have an accident.

[dagabu]

NEVER mill a live composition except for BP. That's what I've gathered anyway.

 

Actually, there are several comps that you can mill as safely as BP, just look at the chems in the recipe. KNO3 & charcoal based comps with no metal are usually safe to mill. Example, D1 has metal, dont mill that, tiger tail does not have metal, you can mill that one.

 

If you melt the sugar and stir in your KNO3, my understanding is that you load it into the rocket tube while it's soft. if so, how would you go about making back into a form that can be used inside a rocket? Just break it down and mill it again? I gather that this is just to further blend the composition, correct?

 

Again, Yames Yawn. No, add both at the same time and melt them both together. Again, No, you just remelt it again because if you try to mill it, you will get a big ball of salty sugar with all of your media hopelessly stuck inside. When cooked properly, it is a thick liquid like stiff honey.

 

Some people rice their rocket/fountain fuel (without a binder) in order to keep the dust down. Personally, I suspect that riced fuel is slightly harder to consolidate into a single grain, not a problem if you have a press, but all my rockets are rammed so I just live with the dust.

 

There is no reason to rice it, just use a spray bottle and wet the comp slowly (constantly mixing) until there is no dust, pass it through a screen (any size is fine) a few times just to make sure all of it is damp. It should not clump much at all when done right. No need to let it dry, it can be rammed or pressed while still damp and it will make a harder grain. 1% water also makes for faster BP so if it CATO's when still damp, wait until it is fully dry.

 

D