Lift Powder for cylinder shells

[Vrizla]

I have been mostley making turbo pyro projects and other peoples so far, but I want to start making some custome stuff. In turbo pyro they use goex ffg to lift shells. I want to make my own granulated bp to launch cylinder shells 2 1/2 long 1 1/8 od that weigh approximately 45g. What size granulation should I use and how much should I use as a charge. Also is there some sort of chart to tell you how much lift powder to use for different size and weight shells.

[Bonny]

I have been mostley making turbo pyro projects and other peoples so far, but I want to start making some custome stuff. In turbo pyro they use goex ffg to lift shells. I want to make my own granulated bp to launch cylinder shells 2 1/2 long 1 1/8 od that weigh approximately 45g. What size granulation should I use and how much should I use as a charge. Also is there some sort of chart to tell you how much lift powder to use for different size and weight shells.

 

For shells that small, try -10+20 mesh. you might be able to go even finer grain, but -10+20 should be good. Start with about 5g and dial the lift charge up or down from there.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Bonny

[PoorBoy]

I went to the hardware store and bought some hardware cloth. Its welded wire screen that comes in different sizes. The one I use is 1/4"x1/4" which is basically 20 mesh. Grabed some 1x1/2" wood and used that for frames. Out of 1 roll i made like 6 framed screens. I use 5 for drying racks and 1 for graining BP.

 

20 Mesh BP for pyro uses is equivalent to ffg. These 1/4" granules will lift everything from a 1" shell to a 10". ( I imagine it would work fine on the bigger shells like 16" but havent gotten that far in my own learning). I use it for all my shells and it works great, and a roll of hardware cloth is cheaper than buying 20 mesh screens from a supplier.

 

I agree with bonny 5 grams up or down should work. As my rule of thumb when I make anything 2" or smaller I use a half oz of lift just because I dont care to weigh them out and that always works fine.

 

With shells that size I think the rule of thumb is 10% of the shells weight.

 

After 1lb the rules change a little.

Then its 1 oz for every pound up to 10 pounds, then you add a half ounce for each additional pound.

IE a 20 pound shell uses 15 oz of lift.

[Mumbles]

Mesh is holes per linear inch, not square inch. A 1/4" hardware cloth is around 4 mesh. Window screen is 16 mesh, and closer to 20 mesh if that's what you're interested in.

 

For shells this small I tend to use a -16 to 30 mesh. It's just a convenient mesh size for me. I screen the fines from my normal lift out on a 16 mesh screen. Everything that passes, and is retained on a 30 mesh screen is for breaking and lifting small shells. Everything that passes 30 mesh gets used for priming or remilled or stars or something like that. It gives me a 2/3FA for lift, 4FA for break, and Meal D granulation.

[Bonny]

I make 2 different sizes for lift: -10+20 (~3-4FA) for small (1-2") cans, 3" ball shells and small shell break. I use -4+10 (~2FA) for anything bigger. For my 1" cans I simply use 4-5g and don't bother weighing the shells.

[PoorBoy]

Mesh is holes per linear inch, not square inch. A 1/4" hardware cloth is around 4 mesh. Window screen is 16 mesh, and closer to 20 mesh if that's what you're interested in.

 

For shells this small I tend to use a -16 to 30 mesh. It's just a convenient mesh size for me. I screen the fines from my normal lift out on a 16 mesh screen. Everything that passes, and is retained on a 30 mesh screen is for breaking and lifting small shells. Everything that passes 30 mesh gets used for priming or remilled or stars or something like that. It gives me a 2/3FA for lift, 4FA for break, and Meal D granulation.

 

 

Ok, I didn't know mesh sizes wer linear inch, that makes sense, I guess all my BP is 4 mesh then. I have used 4 mesh in all my shells with sucess, its the short mortar tubes that make it seem slow, but it always gets it high enough.

[Arthur]

As for ball shells, a good guess at lift is 10% of the bare shell weight for small shells (sub 3") 3 - 6" try 6% but for big shells (12 - 16") less lift is needed.

 

However quality of fit in mortar means a LOT and cylinder shells with a good fit may need much less lift than the expected weight percentage needed by ball shells.

 

Length of mortar also means a lot, a longer tube usually gets more height out of the same lift. Identical shells fired out of mortars of different lengths will rise to significantly different heights.

 

The only workable method to optimise the lift is to weigh the shell then make a best guess and try it and refine the lift calculation to reach optimum height for the break.

[pyrochris732]

for what its worth, for my 2 inch can shells ive been using ffg. My heaviest one weighed 100 grams so I put in about 7 grams of lift. Its actually probably going to break really hard because the shell fits very snugly (but well) and they say that you are supposed to use about half of commercial bp than homemade. At least that what cannonfuse recommends. I havent had the chance to test these yet because of the neighbors being home and want to wait until I dont think it will attract police attention. Im going to start with a cracking fuse shell test as soon as i can.

[Gossettc68]

I've had sucsess using FFA Goex as a lift charge in our 2 inch salutes. I've gotten away with using both FFG Goex and FFFG goex as lift but I've found the coarser FFA to be better. Usually only use around 10-12 grams for lifting 20 grams of flash composition.

[Peret]

I've had sucsess using FFA Goex as a lift charge in our 2 inch salutes. I've gotten away with using both FFG Goex and FFFG goex as lift but I've found the coarser FFA to be better. Usually only use around 10-12 grams for lifting 20 grams of flash composition.

Yes, however FFA is not sold to the public. The nearest equivalent would be Goex or Graf "cannon powder", though I haven't seen that listed for a while so perhaps it's also forbidden now. 2FG is a lot finer. I use Goex 3FG for lifting small shells because I happen to have a lot of it, but it's rather fierce.

[Gossettc68]

Yes, however FFA is not sold to the public. The nearest equivalent would be Goex or Graf "cannon powder", though I haven't seen that listed for a while so perhaps it's also forbidden now. 2FG is a lot finer. I use Goex 3FG for lifting small shells because I happen to have a lot of it, but it's rather fierce.

 

Yeah, Not sure who has a federal license and who does not. the 3fg does well. Any of you guys know the rice crispies/flash trick?

[pyrochris732]

why use 3fg when you can buy 1fg or 2fg (which i have used). Those are closer to the correct size grains needed for lift.

[Gossettc68]

why use 3fg when you can buy 1fg or 2fg (which i have used). Those are closer to the correct size grains needed for lift.

 

2FG and 3FG is readily more available for me at the time, the company in which I work for ( Tannerite ) stocks it.

[Pretty green flame]

-10 to +20 mesh, universal lift. I've used it for anything from 2" to 6" . Though with bigger shells , the shell itself has to be well made to resist the lift forces. Especially canister shells will not tolerate shabby worksmanship.

[Mumbles]

I've had less luck lifting smaller shells with 2FA. I never could get that same explosion, rather a lazy toss into the air. I still use 2FA to lift 3" canisters, but everything smaller I like to lift with 4FA. This includes 3" ball shells. I may have to re-evaluate this a little bit now that I am getting back into making my own lift and burst. I use a slightly different (finer) cut for grading.

[Bonny]

I've had less luck lifting smaller shells with 2FA. I never could get that same explosion, rather a lazy toss into the air. I still use 2FA to lift 3" canisters, but everything smaller I like to lift with 4FA. This includes 3" ball shells. I may have to re-evaluate this a little bit now that I am getting back into making my own lift and burst. I use a slightly different (finer) cut for grading.

 

I also use my '2FA' for 3" canisters. For 3" ball shells I use either 2FA or 3-4FA (-10+20). My 3" (paper) guns are quite long though, ~24" so maybe that helps when I use the coarser powder.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

There is no reason why you shouldn´t use 3/4FA as long as the shell can withstand the shock of the charge. However, there is a reason why you should use it: using finer grain will save you weight.

[Bonny]

There is no reason why you shouldn´t use 3/4FA as long as the shell can withstand the shock of the charge. However, there is a reason why you should use it: using finer grain will save you weight.

 

On the ball shells I use whatever I have more of at the time. As for saving BP I know finer is better, but I generally get a lot more coarse grains when crushing my powder, and to save ~5g/shell to me is not worth the extra labour. For canisters I was having issues (a few years back) with flowerpots. I'm sure that it was due to poor shell construction though. Anyway, I then changed to 2FA and also I improved the construction of my shells. I just never bothered to try the finer powder again, and I don't get to do much testing anymore, so I go with what works.

[pyrochris732]

kjh

 

 

Edited June 19, 2010 by pyrochris732

[pyrochris732]

well, my buddy just came down from NY state and got me two cans of fg powder; I just dont have the time to make a good quality lift powder with only 2 weeks left before the 4th I have tons more stars to make as well as putting shells together.

 

I hope fg will be ok to lift 4 and 5 inch shells and 3 inch canister salutes. I weighed some of my 4's and they are roughly the same weight, about 350 grams give or take.