Cut Stars that don't require milling?

[jwitt]

I need to recover financially until I can get my mill set up. Ought to be in 3 weeks. My star pump will probably take a while, I hear the custom tooling guy, Pianomaestro, has been really busy lately.

 

I plan to make TT, Willow, D1, Granite, and Veline Stars. I know I can make cut Granite (Zinc) Stars with commercial airfloat and no milling before addition of metal. But the rest of my list requires either a little time in the mill or a star pump.

 

Any suggestions on a cut star I could make with the following materials? Obviously, most of 'em are intended for the stars listed above, but I'm curious to see what I can do until I get that mill and pump.

 

• KNO3
• KCl04
• Sr(NO3)2

• Commercial Airfloat
• -80# Spherical Ti
• 325# Atomized Al
• 200# MgAl
• Dark Al
• 200-325# Zn
• Sodium Benzoate
• S
• CuO
• Fe2O3
• Lampblack
• Parlon
• Dextrin
• Red Gum

Common solvents will be purchased whenever I go to the hardware store.

 

It's a small list, but at the same time, a big list for a beginner. I have a feeling I'm still gonna be limited until I get my tools squared away...but I'd love to make a few small batches of different stars between now and then, just to get the ball rolling.

 

Suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Edited April 7, 2010 by jwitt

[dagabu]

Grant is at a stand still, nothing has come from him in a month.

 

D

[Bonny]

I need to recover financially until I can get my mill set up. Ought to be in 3 weeks. My star pump will probably take a while, I hear the custom tooling guy, Pianomaestro, has been really busy lately.

 

I plan to make TT, Willow, D1, Granite, and Veline Stars. I know I can make cut Granite (Zinc) Stars with commercial airfloat and no milling before addition of metal. But the rest of my list requires either a little time in the mill or a star pump.

 

Any suggestions on a cut star I could make with the following materials? Obviously, most of 'em are intended for the stars listed above, but I'm curious to see what I can do until I get that mill and pump.

 

• KNO3
• KCl04
• Sr(NO3)2

• Commercial Airfloat
• -80# Spherical Ti
• 325# Atomized Al
• 200# MgAl
• Dark Al
• 200-325# Zn
• Sodium Benzoate
• S
• CuO
• Fe2O3
• Parlon
• Dextrin
• Red Gum

Common solvents will be purchased whenever I go to the hardware store.

 

It's a small list, but at the same time, a big list for a beginner. I have a feeling I'm still gonna be limited until I get my tools squared away...but I'd love to make a few small batches of different stars between now and then, just to get the ball rolling.

 

Suggestions are greatly appreciated!

 

A star pump makes no difference for a comp to need ballmilling or not.

Most colour stars and glitters are not ballmilled. Take a look at the formulas section or even look some up on pyroguide. You will most likely need a coffee mill though, to pre-grind any lumpy chems. Then just screen together and away you go.

 

Glitters can be a bit tougher to do as cut stars as you don't want to wet them too much...I think ~8% water.

[Mumbles]

I frequently cut glitters. Upwards of 20-30% water. The effect is different than pumped or rolled of course, but I like it better in some circumstances.

[Bonny]

I frequently cut glitters. Upwards of 20-30% water. The effect is different than pumped or rolled of course, but I like it better in some circumstances.

 

I've cut them myself a couple years ago- D1 and Williams no-antimony white IIRC . Not sure exactly how much water was used, but way over the 8% range. But I've have never compared them to the ones I've pumped.

[jwitt]

Oooh, might not be pumping any stars for a while then. Oh well, reading what I've read about Grant, and comparing his prices to others', I'll be patient. Side jobs are hard to get in sometimes.

 

I don't plan on milling the color stars, but I've primarily read about them being pumped. I worry that cut color stars might be a pretty sloppy effect since they won't be as uniform, and they aren't cheap to make, so I want 'em to be good.

 

Ball milling- primarily I'm worried about not milling charcoal stars. Are there any decent charcoal effects I can get without a little time in a mill to integrate the composition? Anything that could just be screened? For example, say I would make a willow comp and not screen it- how would that alter the effect and burn time?

 

Cut D-1 would be worth checking out then, knowing it won't be the same (really sweet looking) twinkling glitter effect I've seen on video? If it's cool, but not the same, then I'd consider trying. If it just turns into a charcoal streamer with some metal in it, then there are probably other comps I could try...just make something more suited to cutting.

 

Might a different solvent/binder combo work for cutting D1? Red gum doesn't seem to be such a great binder from my early green mix experiments, but I haven't upped the quantity too much.

 

Doh- added lampblack to the list above.

[Mumbles]

Honestly, if anything I think cutting gives glitters a longer delay before flashing. The effect is also a little coarser and strobe like. Other binders and solvents are more liable to mess up your glitter. Pretty much anything chlorine based (parlon, pvc, saran) is known to kill glitters. Red gum, shellac, and other gums I have heard do very similar things. I've had good luck just screening the following spider star. There is a very nice tail on it.

 

KNO3 - 55

C - 27.5

S - 10.7

Dex - 6.1

Lampblack - .8

 

It adds to 100.1, but that is from rounding. The lampblack is optional, but highly recommended. Screen 3 times. It is originally from Mike Swisher.

[TheEskimo]

Colors--Generally any chems for color stars should be, at minimum, -200 mesh when you buy them. Just screen them together; if you want, stir them a bit. It's not hard to make colors. I just screen together everything but the metals, and then stir in the metals. They have never looked bad from insufficient mixing.

Glitter-Generally don't need milling--Can be screened if individual chems are fine enough.

Streamers--Get the chems fine enough, and if the ratio of oxidizer:fuel is not too small, you're good to screen and go.

As for pumping--Just go get some PVC, and some rods, dowels, bolts, etc. slightly smaller than the ID of the PVC tube. Voila--You just got a starpump. I currently use brass piping w/sawed-off bolts as plungers.

[frosty90]

I just made a batch of 'winokur 20' without milling, then cut them. I do tell a lie, i milled some of the chems because they were in chunks, like the charcoal, but if your chems are fine enough to start with, just push them through a screen. My potassium nitrate is about the consistency of fine sand, and I used -200 mesh al instead of magnalium. here is the formula http://www.vk2zay.net/composition/67

I think glitters work better with coarser chems anyway, I lit some and threw them and they are quite good. I have a couple of shells full now waiting to be pasted... It says gold flashes, but they look more whiteish to me.

 

Jesse

[Ralph]

I just made a batch of 'winokur 20' and I used -200 mesh al instead of magnalium.

Jesse

 

 

 

will look much better if you use a glitter formula calculated for straight aluminium (check your inbox I just sent you all 40 of his formula's)

[Bonny]

Colors--Generally any chems for color stars should be, at minimum, -200 mesh when you buy them. Just screen them together; if you want, stir them a bit. It's not hard to make colors. I just screen together everything but the metals, and then stir in the metals. They have never looked bad from insufficient mixing.

Glitter-Generally don't need milling--Can be screened if individual chems are fine enough.

Streamers--Get the chems fine enough, and if the ratio of oxidizer:fuel is not too small, you're good to screen and go.

As for pumping--Just go get some PVC, and some rods, dowels, bolts, etc. slightly smaller than the ID of the PVC tube. Voila--You just got a starpump. I currently use brass piping w/sawed-off bolts as plungers.

 

I usually grind (if needed) and pre-screen my oxidizers through 100mesh. Most of the other chems I use may have some lumps, but they get broken up when screening the comp. I also screen the comps with the metals added, unless using very coarse metal.

[jwitt]

Well, this is all great news for me!

 

I'm looking forward to using a nicer tool, but I'll make a star pump for the meantime, just to crank out some small batches of color stars...I'm still worried that cut color stars won't have the uniform burn I'd like to see, and would look like a sloppier spread in the sky. Any input on that?

 

 

 

Small batches ought to be a great thing to do in the evening after getting home from work, eating, and working in the garden- and before guitars, booze, and sleep. I'm not a TV dude, so I need other stuff to occupy my time! Keep notes and put control numbers on the batches, which then go into numbered shells and then into the firing order. Spreadsheets will be my friend.

 

I have coffee mills, so fine chemicals for these batches won't be a problem.

 

 

 

Also kinda curious about trying that Winokur 20- I've seen it mentioned a few times. Might be a nice effect for some variety in addition to the golden D1.

 

 

 

Thanks again to you guys for all the help and information! Even though I've read until my eyes bleed (and a law office rat has a high propensity for reading and research) there have been tons of things I've needed clarification on.

 

Edit: I've gotta plug my note taking software once again- it makes it so simple to add a little clip to "D1" "Veline" "General Processes" or any category I choose. It's up to about 30 pages if I'd print it.

Edited April 8, 2010 by jwitt

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

I can imagine you want to make as many and as much as possible devices, but what you'll really make a good pyrotechnician are good tools.

It's not always fun to make good tools, but it's really fun to use them

[TheEskimo]

/quote/I'm still worried that cut color stars won't have the uniform burn I'd like to see, and would look like a sloppier spread in the sky. Any input on that?/quote/

 

As Bonny and I have said, just be sure that your chems are fine enough, and a simple screening will do. If you're still worried about consistancy, screen multiple times until you're satisfied.

I screen everything together at once. Bonny makes sure that the oxidizers are clump-free, and then screens them together. I don't have that problem anymore, so I don't need to.

If you're stilll worried, try a test batch of screening...say 10 or 20 grams of comp. You will see that it doesn't require much to mix color stars. Add in the fact that you will be stirring in solvent so you can pump them, I wouldn't be worried about consistancy at all.

[jwitt]

Dutchman- I spent my youth in a machine shop. I envy those who have access to a lathe, drill press, and milling machine. But maybe I can make decent "homemade" tools instead.

 

Eskimo- my worry isn't consistency in the mix, but in the burst- cut stars aren't going to be as precise as pumped, so they will have different burn times. Maybe this is not significant enough to matter, but the uniform effect of all stars burning out at the same time would be nice.

[TheEskimo]

Whoops, my bad jwitt. As long as the thickness of your stars are the same, they will have about the same burnrate. Imagine a star 1 foot wide by 1 foot long. It is, however, only 3/8in thick. Now imagine a star that is 3/8 by 3/8 by 3/8. IF you can get both stars to ignite in their entirety all at once, they will burn at just about the same speed. Just roll out the stars to the thickness you want. Now, take a ruler, and score in the comp the length and width of the stars you want. As long as the thickness is the same, you can have some deviations on the length and width. Using a ruler will make it much more precise, and will ensure that your stars are more uniform. Another thing to consider when making uniform-burning stars is the prime. You can have the most uniform stars, but if the prime is not uniform, you're screwed in uniform burnout times.

Maybe my analogies aren't the best, but this has been my experince with stars and their sizes.

[Mumbles]

With a little practice, you can make cut stars pretty precise. Tailed stars and glitters are nearly impossible to tell if they burn out exactly at the same time, or slightly different. It's easier to tell with color stars. You can always pick and choose the good stars for shells, and keep the odd shaped and sized ones for junk shells and mines.

[Bonny]

Dutchman- I spent my youth in a machine shop. I envy those who have access to a lathe, drill press, and milling machine. But maybe I can make decent "homemade" tools instead.

 

You can make some "entry level" tools that will serve the purpose without machine shop access. Later on you will most likely upgrade, but star pumps can be as easy as bolts or hardware store wooden dowel rods and an appropriately fitting pc of pipe. For evenly cutting stars, look for a light diffuser (plastic grid). I think Swede has a blog on that method, and it works great. Even cardboard tubes with a decent wall thickness will work as star/comet pumps (for a short time).

 

 

As Mumbles said, pick your stars nice and uniform for shells, and then dump the rest into junk shells or mines, which are basically pyro shotguns...a pile of lift topped with misc. goodies.

[Arthur]

As long as you have oxidisers in fine particle form then most of the rest can be bought to mesh cuts as needed for various comps. So given a coffee grinder for oxidisers the whole Veline system is available to you, and with assorted types of fine charcoal tiger tail will work without a mill (milling improves it though).

 

For instant veline use acetone as the binder -it softens the chlorine donor and makes a gooey mess that cuts well then dries in minutes.

[jwitt]

So, I cut two 1 pound batches of stars yesterday. The formula I used did not suggest an amount of water to use.

 

 

Zinc Pearl (Kosanke was credited in the skylighter article I read)

 

KNO3 35%

Airfloat 15%

Zn 40%

S 5%

Dex 5%

 

 

I think I overwetted both batches, the first slightly worse than the second. The dough ball was moldable, probably like play-dough, although I can't say I can remember its exact consistency. I thought that anything at all crumbly was a bit too dry, so I added small amounts of water to the comp with the spray bottle and worked it in.

 

What I got was a nice ball that was slightly glossy on the surface. Any less water- no gloss, and would be a bit crumbly on the edges when rolled out into a patty. Anyway, they cut reasonably well and held their shape, but the reason I think I went too wet is that the strips would want to stick to each other after cutting with paint edger.

 

My question: Should the rolled out patty of comp have slight cracking along the edges or not?

 

Initial tests, lighting the still-wet star and throwing it (with welding glove) show that these stars are purrrrty and they light easily. It was cool to set one on the ground and light it- you could see the prime layer burn through and then light the comp, which gave a very cool turquoise flame.

 

Hopefully a dry star will give more of a spark tail- the colored "pearl" was bright, but only a few sparks came off. But then the thing was soaking wet...

 

heheh that was cool.

 

Tonight I'm going to make some Chrys #6, maybe with 5-7% Ti added. Gotta order more Zn dust to crank out more Pearl and some Granite to compare with. I'm going to improve my cutting techniques a bit, and employ a helper since I'm ready to gain some efficiency in my process. Next up will be that Spider suggested in this thread.

 

 

Edit: in the Skylighter tutorial, I just read "which is about an additional 16% (0.16) by weight" regarding water. That's for Granite, but I bet Pearl would be close. Doh.

Edited April 12, 2010 by jwitt

[Bonny]

 

What I got was a nice ball that was slightly glossy on the surface. Any less water- no gloss, and would be a bit crumbly on the edges when rolled out into a patty. Anyway, they cut reasonably well and held their shape, but the reason I think I went too wet is that the strips would want to stick to each other after cutting with paint edger.

 

My question: Should the rolled out patty of comp have slight cracking along the edges or not?

 

 

The strips will usually want to stick together. As you cut the strips, slide them away from each other. Then proceed to crosscut, doing the same thing. Also, (when compatible) stars are often rolled in meal powder (or a suitable prime) as they are cut. You can also roll the patty and place it on a layer of meal/prime before starting to cut. Then dust liberally with meal/prime and roll them around witha spatula or similar until they are coated with meal.

 

I always seem to have cracked edges too when rolling out patties, no worries. That's where loaf pans or frames help, by allowing the edges to be compacted as well. You trim off the cracked stuff and make another patty, pump them into stars/comets or just use the trim crap stars in a mine or junk shell.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Bonny

[jwitt]

Good to know I'm on the right track

 

I used waxed paper on the table and on top of the composition, dusted on both sides with prime. (I don't have any incompatible chemicals at the moment, avoiding that for a while)

 

I'm going to try making slices in one direction, separating them, dusting a bit of prime, and then cutting the strips into cubes. Might work faster than hand-separating the stars.

 

I'll also experiment with a slightly drier comp and see if it cuts well. I know I'm in the ballpark, but I think I can get closer this time.

[Mumbles]

Your method sounds fine. I use square dowels underneath the wax paper to get standardized heights of stars. I generally don't worry about priming while wet. I do all of my cuts, and let it sit overnight pretty much as a scored patty. The next day I break them up and let them dry on a screen with a light airflow. I prime after the stars are dry. I've done it when I prime them as well too though. I've found that drying the stars before priming gives it a harder, better adhered layer as I tumble the prime, and it gets compacted between a hard 5 gallon bucket, and hard stars. Then again, I have terrible luck as far as priming so take that with a grain of salt.

 

Wetting sounds about right. I go until it feels right, or a very light glistening upon sitting. I go until the consistency of clay that I like, which I will describe momentarily. Another thing that helps is to wet it, and press it into a cake in the bottom of the bucket/tub for a few minutes. This allows the water to fully distribute, and helps to prevent over wetting. To check for consistency I press it into the bottom of the bucket, and cut it with a butter knife. If I can cut the "pie" into 8 slices without it crumbling much if at all in the center, I know it is ready. You have to wet it further if you're rolling it out into a single patty vs compacting it in a loaf box.

 

I really like SGRS for cutting. It is quite a workout on your forearms to get it properly wet. It gets very plasticy and hard to mix when it is getting about right. When you cut it, the cut lines stay mostly separated, even if in contact. They break apart easily on the score lines after some light drying. The word is thixotropic. Flows like a liquid when it's settling, but with shear force it breaks cleanly. Think silly putty. Thus you can cut the loaf, without much worry of it reforming upon settling. It doesn't make very good comet when it's wet though. The same property that makes it nice to cut, also makes the comets droop upon standing.

[jwitt]

I'll have to try cutting, waiting for 24hrs, breaking, drying, and priming method next, after tonight's batch where I'll drop the water content a tiny bit, make sure to give it extra time to "rest" and soak up water, and do slices into cubes as outlined above. I want to establish the most efficient way to process stars, and the method Mumbles outlined sounds tempting.

 

SGRS is gonna be on one of my future chem orders...I've decided I need some bright Al and more Zn. I've read some interesting things about it (I think it was Mumbles talking about it creating a bit different effect in the air than Dextrin as well as having different characteristics while adding water an cutting)

 

I'm glad that I scored eager volunteers when I showed the roommates the pretty aqua flames last night- it really perked 'em up more than just spending money on mail order stuff...that was starting to bug 'em. Now I can spend 2 hours per night in "chinese factory mode" instead of doing it all myself all while trying not to make a big mess.

[jwitt]

Well, I must have the basic process down- the Chrys #6 + 7% spherical -80# Ti is a friggin' cool star too!

 

Next up is the Spider suggested to me last week. Lampblack...mmm. I heard it should be wet with a bit of alcohol before screening into the composition?