Flash powder safety

[dagabu]

Dag, the rules at PGI and other club events I believe have more to do with not having exposed flash powder around. With the sheer number of people around, it makes it impossible to be aware of what everyone else in the tent is doing. I wouldn't want to have exposed flash powder in front of me, and I wouldn't want to have someone near me having it exposed with out my knowledge. I generally agree with these rules, at least in the main manufacturing area. The fact of the matter is that binary mixing does not work in all situations.

 

I've been to a few group builds where flash was a major component, and it was prepared in the safest way possible for the application, which was not binary.

 

No arguments here, open flash is open flash. I can only speak to my experiences from the club I belong to, YMMV. It really doesn't change the point I made though, binary is not just for ignorant people and the clubs I belong to don't allow open flash.

 

-dag

[nater]

I only took offence to the statement that binary mixing was done by inexperienced people. I am still learning as I go, but there are some applications where binary reports work just fine. Dag mentioned PGI and some regional club shoots. I like to use binary reports to top off the empty space in a rocket motor when dialing in delay times. It is quick, easy and effective for timing. Other applications like making a hand rolled bottom shot require it to be filled full. I haven't made them yet but I don't see how the binary method could be used for the small timed reports either.

[Mumbles]

I meant to say that the places with the open flash were private group build sessions. It was myself, marks265, and Larry Karlmann. At this point, I am probably the least experienced of the three of us. Binary certainly has its uses, but as Nate pointed out, not everything works.

[nater]

Another perspective to consider is the relative danger if other comps. When I make whistle, I usually mix 1kg at a time. Earlier this year on Passfire there was discussion on the hazards of open whistle as it dries. Small amounts (50 g i think) caused almost as much damage as the same amounts of whistle. Edited January 3, 2013 by nater

[TritonPyro]

This is a message to Mumbles for his experience. I do not use flash for many reasons, but I have been told that titanium can be added to black powder for the crackling effect with the report. This is for cylinder inserts and the Ti is 80 mesh . I am not sure if he meant granulated BP or mill dust. Thanks.

[nater]

I have often mixed coarse Ti with BP while testing delays on rocket motors. I've never heard the Ti "pop", but it adds the expected white sparks to the BP. You would want to use hot, granulated BP.

 

If you want to add crackle to a small BP report, the easiest way would be to get some consumer crackle balls, open them up and use the crackle stars inside mixed with your BP.

Edited April 2, 2013 by nater

[Mumbles]

Up close titanium does crackle or sizzle a little bit. At any reasonable distance however this would be pretty much inaudible. As Nater said, it will produce white sparks, but that's about it.

 

Most BP reports are made with granular BP. If you find it isn't loud enough, adding in some dark flake Al to the BP can increase the noise.

[TheExplosionist]

And, in fact, you've asked about a pyro mixture which is itself a contradiction in terms: flash powder is about the simplest and easiest of fireworks creations, being only a simple dry mixture of chemicals.

 

I disagree.

 

Flash powder requires chlorate or perchlorate and micronized aluminium or magnesium. Making these from scratch is no small achievement.

Just making potassium chlorate requires far more skill, time and money than black powder. Some pyrotechnicians even think it's not possible to make flash aluminium outside of industry.

[MrB]

You do realise that with the exeption of possibly charcoal, pyros generaly don't go through the process of making the chems them self. Buy, mix, blow hand up, yup, flash is indeed one of the simplest compositions there is.

B!

[AirCowPeacock]

And consider the difficulty of making KNO3 and elemental sulfur from 'scratch.'

[dagabu]

I disagree.

 

Flash powder requires chlorate or perchlorate and micronized aluminium or magnesium. Making these from scratch is no small achievement.

Just making potassium chlorate requires far more skill, time and money than black powder. Some pyrotechnicians even think it's not possible to make flash aluminium outside of industry.

 

Disagree or not, it is the simpleness of a binary mix that makes it both the easiest and the most dangerous mix to the noob and old snort alike. As far as synthesizing the chlorate, it's actually easy to do but it's nor easy to do well. Stamped pyrotechnic Al is not difficult to make, it CAN be made from aluminum foil and paper along with a hammer. Yes, it would take a while to make enough to make a boom but it is possible.

 

Synthesizing chlorate is no harder then synthesizing potassium nitrate.

Edited May 10, 2013 by dagabu

[TheExplosionist]

What steps can be taken to minimize the risks involved in making and storing flash powder?

e.g. blue instead of dark aluminium, oil coating of some kind

 

There must be an additive that can reduce the sensitivity to static electricity without compromising brisance. That's what concerns me the most.

Edited May 10, 2013 by TheExplosionist

[Mumbles]

Well, the biggest thing you can do is to not store flash powder. Once sealed inside of salutes and inserts it's really not that large of a hazard, but don't just store it out like you might with stars or BP. There are also steps you can take to minimize hazards. Nothing will be totally safe when talking about flash powder of course. Make only as much as you need for one day of building. This goes back to the not storing it. Also humidity is your friend. I've been recommended not to work in less than 60% relative humidity. Additionally I spray my entire body, work area, and tools with static-guard anti-static spray. Some people use anti-static straps, but I don't like the idea of being tethered to anything.

[mikeee]

TheExplosionist,

 

Flash Powder is one of those topics that can cause problems for everyone in the conversation.

Take your time to read resources that are out there if you take the time to find them and read them.

There are too many people that cause serious injury and property damage from mixing flash powder at home.

On average in the area I live in we have one person each year that kills themselves and causes great damage to their property.

These individuals usually take several days to die from the horrible burns and damage from the explosion.

If I were tell you how to make flash powder the APC forum would most likely ban me from the site.

The cost to an average individual that has an accident with flash is anywhere from 250,000 dollars on up.

Medical Bills, Legal Costs, Property Damage, Lost Income, Increased Insurance Costs, Hazmat Teams, etc.

Learn about all the other aspects of pyrotechnics and the process will become quite clear.

[dagabu]

TheExplosionist,

 

Flash Powder is one of those topics that can cause problems for everyone in the conversation.

Take your time to read resources that are out there if you take the time to find them and read them.

There are too many people that cause serious injury and property damage from mixing flash powder at home.

On average in the area I live in we have one person each year that kills themselves and causes great damage to their property.

These individuals usually take several days to die from the horrible burns and damage from the explosion.

If I were tell you how to make flash powder the APC forum would most likely ban me from the site.

The cost to an average individual that has an accident with flash is anywhere from 250,000 dollars on up.

Medical Bills, Legal Costs, Property Damage, Lost Income, Increased Insurance Costs, Hazmat Teams, etc.

Learn about all the other aspects of pyrotechnics and the process will become quite clear.

 

 

 

Bravo! Well said mikeee

[ACLIGHTADDICTED]

I must admit i like heavy salutes. I work with the plasticos gamos 4 and 3" salute cans (they are made out of antistatic plastic) i first

put the monetti timefuse in the hole and fill the can with up to 350gr of perchlorate and 150gr of german dark and after the can is closed i shake it well for about

2 minutes.

 

My Table is grounded and the same gose for the spot that i stand on and i spray myself with antistaticspray.

 

After i have made so much of them i still have a bad feeling while shaking 500gr of comp.

[killercripple]

Can i get a little more detailed answer on how friction and impact sensitive Al/KCLO4. Is it lighting a match friction sensitive? or even less than that? Same type of question go's for impact.

 

I've been mixing FP for a few years now with no problems, But I'd like to know if im doing something i shouldn't be doing.

 

I try to be as safe as possible when mixing, But i figure asking people who have been doing it longer than me can't hurt any.

[brimstoned]

I have not done much in the way of friction testing, but a moderate blow from a hammer to a small sample on a vice will often cause ignition.

As far as heat sensitivity goes, at one time I placed .1 gm samples of KClO₄/AL, KClO₄/Al/S, and FF BP on an 1/8" thick steel sheet and turned the hotplate under it to high. Curiously enough, the BP ignited first, followed in a few seconds by the sulfur flash and then the binary flash.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I would test anything you are unsure or worried about. Mix up a little and make a small pea sized pile on a steel plate of some sort. Take a hammer and rub back and forth on the composition. Then hit a pile with the hammer. A piece of tape will help keep it from flying everywhere. It is also really loud so some ear plugs are probably a good idea. Keep increasing the force and see if you get a reaction.

 

I have done this with perchlorate flash and it is surprisingly hard to get a reaction. Chlorate flash is easier and will smell similar to a match. But try for yourself, with your chemicals, if you are unsure.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Also, the binary method helps reduce the danger of mixing and loading flash powder. Everything is done inside the case and in my opinion, substantially safer.

[Mumbles]

Unfortunately, binary salutes tend to be more dangerous than properly filled salute casings due to the lack of supporting strength. There is a chance for them caving in and causing catostrophic flowerpots and in-mortar explosions. Certain applications are quite suited for binary mixing, but some others are not.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Yeah that is true for bottom shots/canister shells.

 

If I were making them I think I would make "safer" flash using TPA. Not only is it safer but it makes the flash cheaper. I use it anytime I can't use the binary method. Flash bags in ball shells, small salute inserts, and if I made multibreak canister shells I would use it in the BS.

 

I like the "safe" flash because it lets me use any aluminum I want, I can use any mixing method, it is proven by extensive military use, and it actually seems a bit more powerful than standard flash once it is confined.

[killforfood]

FlaMtnBkr,

 

What is TPA?

I'm curious because I don't recognize TPA as an abreviation for anything.

 

If the explanation crosses into the realm of HE, maybe you could just generalize without details.

[Mumbles]

I believe he's talking about Terephthalic Acid. There are some patents on making "safer" flash or concussion powders by using relatively volatile organic fuels in place of part of the aluminum. They tend to smoulder at best in the open, and will only convert to a concussive flash powder when burning under moderate confinement. Some of the theory of it working revolves around the organic fuels subliming out of the composition before it reaches a self-sustaining reaction temperature. Under confinement the fuel, while it may still start subliming, cannot escape the reaction zone and will react more readily with the rest of the mixture.

 

There hasn't been a great deal of experimentation or published experience with it in the amateur pyro circles, though it is fairly well documented in military applications.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Yes, terephthalic acid. I have experimented with it quite a bit and now use it for anything that I can't easily use the binary method. When unconfined it is not so slow as to smoulder but it does burn very slowly. Slowly enough that if it somehow caught fire you could walk away while it burned instead of instantly well done. 20 grams in a paper cup takes 8 or 9 seconds to burn. I started a thread on it over at passfire that turned into a couple pages though I don't think there was anything said that was ground breaking. It is supposed to be in current use in many military devices. Also, the patent has data showing that it is actually louder with a higher velocity than standard 70/30 flash. The formula I use is:

 

71 KClO4

17 Al

12 TPA

 

The TPA can also be used in white "non toxic" smoke that is used as a replacement for HC smoke by the military in training, though HC smoke is still used in combat. There has also been mention that TPA may be used in some whistle formulations though I haven't experimented with that yet. TPA can be bought from Cracker for fairly cheap if anyone is looking for it. I would rather use it than the Blue aluminum as the blue aluminum requires some help for reliable ignition and is not supposed to work well in smaller (sub 10 gram) amounts.