shootist Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 Hello all.......I am a total newbie. I'll try not to ask too many stupid questions. In short, I am wanting to make 1g flash powder targets capable of ignition by a .22 LR impact. I have available, KnO3, KclO4, and magnalium....80 mesh I think. The plan is to cut 2" x 2" X 1/4" plywood squares, drill a 1/2" hole in one square, glue them together, fill the hole with flash and glue poster board over the hole. However, after pouring over your seemingly ( to a newbie) very experienced site, I have decided I should seek more advice before a blow a finger off. The diaper method (with coffee filters), a wet concrete floor, static spray for me and surroundings and a wooden table would be my work area. Also, the mixing would also be done at my range, outdoors, at times. The outdoor part scares me a bit as conditions are not at all under my control. Please.....I'm I going about this totally wrong? Is there a safer compound sensitive enough for ignition from a .22 LR, or should I scrap the idea? Also, are the UNMIXED powders mentioned above safe to store without static protection, and will they absorb ambient moisture if not seal properly. Don't you hate newbie questions? Thanks in advance guys.
Dvorhagen Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I'm also a newbie, so forgive me if this is like the blind leading the deaf, but I thought I'd ring in. It seems to me like using flash for this would simultaneously be dangerous and potentially ineffective... A hit from a .22 round may or may not set off "safer" flashes, so I think you'd be in the position of *wanting* a more sensitive flash - not, from everything I gather, a particularly desirable attribute in these compositions. Wouldn't it make more sense to use something more stable, like BP, for the main charge and then affix to that a very, very small bit of something shock-sensitive to serve as a target (like a bullet's primer)? If you set it up right, you could probably just use toy caps to initiate the larger explosion. It just seems like anything sensitive enough to ignite from the shock of a .22 impact (presumably the round would pass through the explosive target, so it wouldn't even transfer all of its energy to the flash powder) wouldn't be something you'd want to make in sufficient quantity to do this effectively...
dangerousamateur Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I wonder if it's possible to use a rather safe flash and dip your bullettips in red phosphorus?
taiwanluthiers Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 So how do you make sure the Red P actually stays on the bullet as it fires? Also the red P used in match heads are generally a binary mixture, where one part is the head, and the other part is the striker. By rubbing the 2 together you ignite the match head. Strike anywhere matches on the other hand can be ignited by striking it against any reasonably abrasive surface (like a stone wall), but its also fairly sensitive to impact. I just don't know if a match head would ignite on a .22 impact, and you really do not want a mixture of Red P and potassium chlorate around... I believe the generally accepted mixture for exploding targets are Tannerite, but that usually require a rifle round to go off... You might try rigging some rifle primers on the target to set off the mixture when hit, and you'd have to hit a really small target unless you get a group of them.
Dvorhagen Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 I have a question that's at least tangentially related to flash. I've been thinking about adding a quantity of dark Al to a sulphurless BP mix to increase its burn-rate and sensitivity. I'm a little wary about it, since all the components of nitrate flash are in there. Also, I'll be making the BP into a slurry - should I worry about the aluminum potentially reacting with the water? Basically, does adding finely divided aluminum to black powder reduce its stability to a dangerous extent?
Mumbles Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 If you're making it into a slurry with potassium nitrate and sulfur, I would definitely be wary of a reaction. You could try adding a little boric acid to prevent it, but with such a water laden mixture a reaction is certainly a worry with such a fine aluminum. 1
Dvorhagen Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks for the advice. At first blush the 2:1 mix seems to work well enough without the Al. Out of curiosity -- I assume you would just add boric acid to such a mixture to reduce its PH and prevent the Al from reacting exothermically with basic water. Would ascorbic acid work just as well?
brimstoned Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I've had success with .22's and Cu/Al thermite...it might even be possible to mix the comp in the target you are describing after construction?
dzabuka Posted December 15, 2012 Posted December 15, 2012 To my knowledge the Czech Republic and some other eastern European coutries like Slovakia or Slovenia still allow the sale of large salutes.The Czech Republic and Slovakia have pretty much everything allowed (firecrackers with 120g of flash powder, 4inch salutes and up - depends on how much you're willing to spend, those are just the most common ones). All of the items can be purchased legally and without a special pyrotechnics license. Slovenia accepted some laws about 4 years ago, which made every pyrotechnic device which has the main effect a bang illegal (firecrackers, salutes...). Even when they were legal, you could only obtain firecrackers of the II. category, which is about 0.5g of flash powder in them.
Potassiumchlorate Posted December 15, 2012 Posted December 15, 2012 The Czech Republic is also the only country in Europe where every law-abiding citizen can carry a gun in self-defense like in the USA - the way it should be everywhere.
taiwanluthiers Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 in Taiwan the only weapon allowed are bows and arrows... only saving grace is while the police is utterly useless, violence is rare. However if one should find oneself on the shitlist of the mafia (which everyone knows is there, accepts them but the government pretends they don't exist) then the only thing to do is panic, because you can't get a gun to protect yourself. If you get caught with a gun it's a minimum jail term of 5 years.
Potassiumchlorate Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Is it really that hard to get a gun there? In most parts of Europe the gun laws are hard, but the only place I hear that it should be hard to get one is in the UK. In every other country it is just a matter of getting to know the right people.
taiwanluthiers Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 In Taiwan the only way to get a gun is to be involved with the mafia, they are the only ones that deals with that. Penalty for smuggling firearms into the country includes death, so no one except for the mafia would ever dare to do that.
MrB Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Time to get back on topic, i guess.This fellows tip for mixing flash is called "Binary Mixing" or the "Binary Method" where two separate ingredients are added one at a time to a vessel (at PGI this will be your casing) and then the vessel is closed and is handled normally to be pasted, spiked, wrapped, whatever.This is without a doubt my preferred method for flash. For really tiny amounts, as for salutes, crossette and such it's not really an option, and i generally go with a diaper mix, nitrate based flash instead. Plan ahead, make all the tiny salutes / crossettes, and then mix & use all the flash in one go. And dispose what ever leftover flash i might get as soon as i'm done.B!
Mumbles Posted December 17, 2012 Posted December 17, 2012 Agreed 100%. (on what you said, and the desire to get things back on topic) I use the safest flash that will get the job done appropriately, and make only what I need for one days worth of work. While the binary method may be the safest in theory, it does not work in all applications. Actually it doesn't work for most, if any, applications I deal with regularly. You really need to have an understanding of the devices you make to make these sorts of decisions. It's probably more this reason than any others that it's ill-advised for people new to the hobby to be dealing with salutes.
TritonPyro Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Hello all, for my 2 cents ( or 2p ), for all the flash I made ( which is very small and used right away ) I used Potassium nitrate ball milled and then diapered in 250 mesh Mg 50/50. In a 3 inch confined card tube it has a strong report. Seeing that done, I do not make it anymore and prefer BP. Worry of static that mumbles pointed to is very real. I use a wrist grounded computer static lead and anti stat. Apart from that, I would still feel uneasy. I know everybody has their own ways, but it has too many variables. Seeing kids on Youtube ramming chlorate with sulphur in a rocket tube and the vast amounts of flash put together for the bang really puts me on edge. But I digress............................have a great New Year.
Excal Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Had a kewl bomber kid at the house last night. He decides to show off his handywork with something he made. I believe it was flash because it pretty much blinded us when it went off. Had rocks zinging by our heads, and I felt the pressure and heard the cowboy ricoshet ziiip as one flew by me. Tossed his butt right out of here. Didn't know he had it.
TritonPyro Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Hope you gave him a ringing slap! This reminds me of all the accidents waiting to happen on YouTube . Very disturbing.
Excal Posted January 1, 2013 Posted January 1, 2013 Are we allowed to put up youtube links?, because I found one that is not real bad, gore wise, but it would be a wakeup call. They make light of the fact, but the injured person isin't so happy.
TritonPyro Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 All the millions of Chinese flash powder firecrackers shipped over the last.40 odd years..............does any one know of any accidents? The main point is, is that ignorance of chemicals and safety procedure seem to be on the hot list. Paranoia of small quantities of flash powder is getting a bit much. If you need remote ways of mixing binary compositions, then you should not be doing that or you have less experience than you should have doing this wonderful thing. On another subject, it would be nice to be welcomed to this forum. I know you have never heard of me, bit I am not an inexperienced newbie and have been doing this for many years. I was hoping to learn a bit from the experts.
dagabu Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) All the millions of Chinese flash powder firecrackers shipped over the last.40 odd years..............does any one know of any accidents? The main point is, is that ignorance of chemicals and safety procedure seem to be on the hot list. Paranoia of small quantities of flash powder is getting a bit much. If you need remote ways of mixing binary compositions, then you should not be doing that or you have less experience than you should have doing this wonderful thing. On another subject, it would be nice to be welcomed to this forum. I know you have never heard of me, bit I am not an inexperienced newbie and have been doing this for many years. I was hoping to learn a bit from the experts. Where to start... There have been hundreds of billions of firecrackers made in China and India in the past 40 years, if not Trillions. Yes, there have been hundreds of plant explosions in China and India in that time frame killing tens of thousands. A simple search in the New York Times archive shows over 15,000 articles about firework factory explosions in Asia in the past 32 years (database search from 1980 to present). Binary mixing of flash is the only method allowed at the PGI convention, the clubs I attend and at group builds I have attended. It has nothing to do with experience since the worlds most renown pyrotechnists (or a lot of them) attend the PGI and they have to do binary mixing as well. As far as being welcomed, you didn't introduce yourself in the Introductions thread. That's where that kind of stuff happens here. -dag Edited January 3, 2013 by dagabu
Excal Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 A bit rough language, so volume down if the little ones are in the room. you really don't need the volume anyways.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhqdx3VgxTo&list=FLrsl01daVQJ51lnA5KbmFHg&index=3
dagabu Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 A great video to show others how doing stupid stuff with fireworks can end badly. Imagine if the can tore a piece off and cut his femoral artery. He would have died in minutes. -dag
TritonPyro Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Thanks dag for the info. Unbelievable that people continue to look down at fireworks when lit. When I was a kid a Roman candle that said,' push into soil, light touch paper ( this was in the early 60's ) and retire ( or words to that effect ). Well, my friend held it and lit it. Almost right away, the case ruptured and he has a hand burn to this day ( with a damaged thumb tendon ) Taught me a lesson. I did not see the introductions, so apologies.
Mumbles Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Dag, the rules at PGI and other club events I believe have more to do with not having exposed flash powder around. With the sheer number of people around, it makes it impossible to be aware of what everyone else in the tent is doing. I wouldn't want to have exposed flash powder in front of me, and I wouldn't want to have someone near me having it exposed with out my knowledge. I generally agree with these rules, at least in the main manufacturing area. The fact of the matter is that binary mixing does not work in all situations. I've been to a few group builds where flash was a major component, and it was prepared in the safest way possible for the application, which was not binary.
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