pyrojig Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I believe that their are ulterior interests here. The only reason to need that high of a concentration is usually for H.E's . I believe that was a clever disguised Q. to obtain info on getting 100%+ acid. Just my two cents worth ...take it or leave it...
Arthur Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 HCl will dissolve concrete and form soluble chlorides Sulphuric acid will change the concrete to plaster (Calcium Sulphate) which is not as strong but just as solid.
KuzkinaMat Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 I believe that their are ulterior interests here. The only reason to need that high of a concentration is usually for H.E's . I believe that was a clever disguised Q. to obtain info on getting 100%+ acid. Just my two cents worth ...take it or leave it... I'm pretty sure you're right, even though H2S2O7 has plenty of useful applications. He displays the type of educated ignorance typical of matchead grinders. I doubt he knows that Latex gloves will not protect you from nitric acid. But he's gone by now, so I can share this interesting tidbit I learned from AndersHoveland over on Sciencemadness: "Heat boric acid over flame, driving out steam to leave behind molten boric oxide. Sodium bisulfate can be dehydrated at 300C, turning into the pyrosulfate. B2O3 and Na2S2O7 can then be distilled together at around 450C to give off sulfur trioxide, which can then be condensed as either a solid or liquid, depending on how dehydrated the original precursors where. SO3 is extremely corrosive and acidic. It cannot be directly reacted with water since the reaction is so vigorous that it just dangerously sprays sulfuric acid everywhere and vaporizes the most of the SO3. Sulfur trioxide can be absorbed into concentrated H2SO4, forming pyrosulfuric acid, also known as oleum or "super-concentrated" sulfuric acid, since addition oleum to 90%+ sulfuric acid can produce anhydrous 100% concentrated sulfuric acid with dissolved SO3. Again, oleum should not be directly reacted with water since it is more acidic and much more dehydrating than even concentrated sulfuric acid. Another note: the B2O3 and Na2S2O7 should be placed on an iron tray that is inserted inside the borosilicate glass apparatus, since fused B2O4 and sodium salts will dissolve glass at high temperatures." I can only imagine what it would take to clean the distillation flask after all that. Good thing boron trioxide hardly ever crystallizes.
pyrojig Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I'm pretty sure you're right, even though H2S2O7 has plenty of useful applications. He displays the type of educated ignorance typical of matchead grinders. I doubt he knows that Latex gloves will not protect you from nitric acid. But he's gone by now, so I can share this interesting tidbit I learned from AndersHoveland over on Sciencemadness: "Heat boric acid over flame, driving out steam to leave behind molten boric oxide. Sodium bisulfate can be dehydrated at 300C, turning into the pyrosulfate. B2O3 and Na2S2O7 can then be distilled together at around 450C to give off sulfur trioxide, which can then be condensed as either a solid or liquid, depending on how dehydrated the original precursors where. SO3 is extremely corrosive and acidic. It cannot be directly reacted with water since the reaction is so vigorous that it just dangerously sprays sulfuric acid everywhere and vaporizes the most of the SO3. Sulfur trioxide can be absorbed into concentrated H2SO4, forming pyrosulfuric acid, also known as oleum or "super-concentrated" sulfuric acid, since addition oleum to 90%+ sulfuric acid can produce anhydrous 100% concentrated sulfuric acid with dissolved SO3. Again, oleum should not be directly reacted with water since it is more acidic and much more dehydrating than even concentrated sulfuric acid. Another note: the B2O3 and Na2S2O7 should be placed on an iron tray that is inserted inside the borosilicate glass apparatus, since fused B2O4 and sodium salts will dissolve glass at high temperatures." I can only imagine what it would take to clean the distillation flask after all that. Good thing boron trioxide hardly ever crystallizes. Nice info.., Just as a word of caution, Be careful of those who don't cite or reference their work based on text. Not to shoot AndersHoveland down, He is a very educated and sharp fellow, but he lives in his own reality. He give advise blindly out of speculation w/o references , which makes following his work dangerous at times. . If you value your safety make sure that your back up what your learning with something in writing that is from a solid source. Their are a ton of book written by idiots out their, so do your homework.<off the soap box> It is nice to be able to create ones own sulfuric acid . Just be careful and keep you nose in a good chemistry book .
KuzkinaMat Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Nice info.., Just as a word of caution, Be careful of those who don't cite or reference their work based on text. Not to shoot AndersHoveland down, He is a very educated and sharp fellow, but he lives in his own reality. He give advise blindly out of speculation w/o references , which makes following his work dangerous at times. . If you value your safety make sure that your back up what your learning with something in writing that is from a solid source. Their are a ton of book written by idiots out their, so do your homework.<off the soap box> It is nice to be able to create ones own sulfuric acid. Why all the hate for Anders? If something he says is speculative, he always mentions that fact in the post. He's the most helpful and erudite individual I have had the pleasure of corresponding with. (Not that I underestimate the dangers of performing untested procedures regardless of source.) If the boric acid/bisulfate method is not to your taste, an alternative method for those with the equipment is to simply heat anhydrous copper sulfate to 650 ºC, decomposing it into CuO and SO3. This method is simple physics. Of course, using glass at 650 ºC requires exceptional care and vigilance, so you might want to invest in a special rig made from other materials. Edited December 9, 2011 by KuzkinaMat
Arthur Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 There is "over there" a fully detailed and fully referenced method for making H2SO4 by the Lead Chamber process, done by Axehandle I think. It works well, it was the only method once! Now with the advent of cheap plastics that resist acids the Chamber Process can be run in a plastic drum or for yield in bulk try an IBC (1000 litres!) There is enough research on there into the V2O5 catalysed process too, and V2O5 can even be found as a rocket catalyst.
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