Burst Comp & Charge Questions

[jwitt]

I've been doing a lot of reading and research in preparation for Spring and composition mixing & shell building for the 4th.

 

I'm planning on building 3" shells- both plastic and paper hemis (plastic for instant gratification and ease, paper because it's traditional and doesn't fill the field with plastic trash). Also- I am using commercial airfloat charcoal for now.

 

So here's how I see burst charges:

 

Plain granulated BP

BP coated rice hulls

H3 (not sure what H3 is!)

Whistle Mix

Slow Flash

 

1) Black powders. Is it necessary to use ball-milled powders, or does thoroughly screened green mix break shells? (I ask because I'll have a small Harbor Freight tumbler...small batches...) I do not yet have a solid handle on all the uses of green mix, pulverone, etc. except that I know you must use good powder for lift.

 

2) For a 3" shell, is it best to use coated hulls or riced BP?

 

3) Is there a difference when calculating break for paper or plastic shells, or is it simply "fill the void with break?"

 

4) Is there much advantage to a booster for 3" shells (once again, paper & plastic different?)

 

5) What exactly is H3, and when/why is it used?

 

I have a handle on the making of small amounts of flash type mixtures. That being said, I only intend to use it if a) I want the effect of a hard break/report or b ) it's helpful to the specific shell I'm making. Booms? Yeah, they're cool, but anybody can make a big boom. Been there & done that as a crazed teenager, and have a healthy respect for any type of flash composition.

Edited February 8, 2010 by jwitt

[jrin0630]

I've been doing a lot of reading and research in preparation for Spring and composition mixing & shell building for the 4th.

 

I'm planning on building 3" shells- both plastic and paper hemis (plastic for instant gratification and ease, paper because it's traditional and doesn't fill the field with plastic trash). Also- I am using commercial airfloat charcoal for now.

 

So here's how I see burst charges:

 

Plain granulated BP

BP coated rice hulls

H3 (not sure what H3 is!)

Whistle Mix

Slow Flash

 

1) Black powders. Is it necessary to use ball-milled powders, or does thoroughly screened green mix break shells? (I ask because I'll have a small Harbor Freight tumbler...small batches...) I do not yet have a solid handle on all the uses of green mix, pulverone, etc. except that I know you must use good powder for lift.

 

2) For a 3" shell, is it best to use coated hulls or riced BP?

 

3) Is there a difference when calculating break for paper or plastic shells, or is it simply "fill the void with break?"

 

4) Is there much advantage to a booster for 3" shells (once again, paper & plastic different?)

 

5) What exactly is H3, and when/why is it used?

 

I have a handle on the making of small amounts of flash type mixtures. That being said, I only intend to use it if a) I want the effect of a hard break/report or b ) it's helpful to the specific shell I'm making. Booms? Yeah, they're cool, but anybody can make a big boom. Been there & done that as a crazed teenager, and have a healthy respect for any type of flash composition.

 

I am no expert, but I'll try to answer your questions based on my studies and experience:

 

1.) In terms of burst charges, yes it is necessary to use BP versus green mix. Green mix is just a term used to denote when the components of BP (kno3, c and s) are just screened together. The resulting powder burns, but it burns alot slower and hotter than BP. Green mix is often used as a priming powder due to its burning and temperature properties. In order to have BP, the KNO3 and sulfur must be well integrated into the charcoal hence the ball milling or grinding. There are other non-milling or grinding methods to produce BP but I am less familiar with those.

 

2.) I have used both BP on a carrier (rice hulls) and riced BP and both seem to work fine. I prefer BP on a carrier since you get more "mileage" pound for pound out of your BP and the rice hulls help to keep the stars in place.

 

3.) The actual break is a function of several things like shell type, pasting or spiking, burst charge type etc....In other words, its a balance between all 3. I pretty much build 3" and 4" paper ball shells and started with straight BP on rice hulls and just filled the void and pasted the shell with the appropriate amount of Kraft paper tape. Then I adjusted from there....i.e...you can add a booster to get more of a break or add another layer of pasting etc...in all cases, you want a balance between a good break and the type of effect you are looking for. Trial and error works best.

 

4.) A booster will supplement the main break charge and help ramp up the internal pressure within the shell at a faster rate than using BP alone. This is more important in small shells (1.5" to 4") since those shells have less overall volume inside. Sometimes though, a harder break is not needed or warranted. With some types of stars a "softer" break works best. If you use a booster, start with a very small amount (like.5g for a 3" shell) and go from there. Also, there are lots of different boosters and each one has its own strength, speed etc...

 

5.) H3 is a mixture of Pot. Chlorate, hemp coal and glutinous rich starch. Its a pretty powerful burst charge used in small shells. Be very care as it contains a chlorate mixture which can be incompatable with other chemicals (like sulfur....).Hope this helps....

[QED4803]

I've been doing a lot of reading and research in preparation for Spring and composition mixing & shell building for the 4th.

 

I'm planning on building 3" shells- both plastic and paper hemis (plastic for instant gratification and ease, paper because it's traditional and doesn't fill the field with plastic trash). Also- I am using commercial airfloat charcoal for now.

 

So here's how I see burst charges:

 

Plain granulated BP

BP coated rice hulls

H3 (not sure what H3 is!)

Whistle Mix

Slow Flash

 

1) Black powders. Is it necessary to use ball-milled powders, or does thoroughly screened green mix break shells? (I ask because I'll have a small Harbor Freight tumbler...small batches...) I do not yet have a solid handle on all the uses of green mix, pulverone, etc. except that I know you must use good powder for lift.

 

2) For a 3" shell, is it best to use coated hulls or riced BP?

 

3) Is there a difference when calculating break for paper or plastic shells, or is it simply "fill the void with break?"

 

4) Is there much advantage to a booster for 3" shells (once again, paper & plastic different?)

 

5) What exactly is H3, and when/why is it used?

 

I have a handle on the making of small amounts of flash type mixtures. That being said, I only intend to use it if a) I want the effect of a hard break/report or b ) it's helpful to the specific shell I'm making. Booms? Yeah, they're cool, but anybody can make a big boom. Been there & done that as a crazed teenager, and have a healthy respect for any type of flash composition.

 

Welcome jwitt! Sounds as if you're approaching the hobby with a pretty sane attitude. Please note that I am also fairly low on the learning curve, so my advice may be of somewhat less value than that of more experienced members. BP is no doubt job one for a budding pyro--there are a number of good threads here to help you optimize your production of powder, which I strongly recommend you use exclusively for both lift and breaks until you are thoroughly familiar with the various processes (and pitfalls) of making and launching shells. HP (and all chlorate compositions) are quite hazardous and are avoided entirely even by many experienced pyros, to say nothing of us newbs. Carriers such as rice hulls are useful and relatively safe to work with. You already know about flash! If you haven't yet downloaded TurboPyro, I highly recommend it as a introductory course. Also Skylighter.com has a lot of great tutorials and useful information in their newsletters archive.

 

Best of luck, and stay green,

Smitty

[NightHawkInLight]

I'll just give you a few quick answers.

 

1) Black powders. Is it necessary to use ball-milled powders, or does thoroughly screened green mix break shells? (I ask because I'll have a small Harbor Freight tumbler...small batches...) I do not yet have a solid handle on all the uses of green mix, pulverone, etc. except that I know you must use good powder for lift.

If all your chemicals are extremely fine and high quality charcoal is used, it is possible to use green mix for break - granulated or on hulls. It would be hard to do so in shells as small as 3", but granulated may work suitably well with a booster.

 

2) For a 3" shell, is it best to use coated hulls or riced BP?

If using green mix then riced BP is preferable, otherwise hulls should also work well.

 

3) Is there a difference when calculating break for paper or plastic shells, or is it simply "fill the void with break?"

The differences between the two are negligible. Just fill the void.

 

4) Is there much advantage to a booster for 3" shells (once again, paper & plastic different?)

Yes, unless you are using exceptionally fast BP, a dusting of nitrate flash or a whistle composition will be of great help. Again, if you use green mix it will likely be necessary for a nice break.

 

5) What exactly is H3, and when/why is it used?

As mentioned before, it's a composition of potassium chlorate and charcoal. You should not consider chlorates as an option. They are much more dangerous to work with than other pyrotechnic oxidizers, and require strict safety requirements you simply could not be prepared for at this point.

[jwitt]

Thanks for the input.

 

Potassium Chlorate- I have no plans on using it- one of my main goals is to have very few incompatible chemicals in my selection, but I won't scratch my head when people talk about H3. (Now I get it- a formula number)

 

I have DL'd the turbo-pyro book, and yeah, I'm learning all sorts of interesting stuff from it, even though I'm concentrating on shells for this 4th. Some day I want to try out some of those projects- small rockets and the like especially, as well as some mines. (Might end up tinkering with mines in my quest for good BP and star testing)

 

I made some green mix last week, and I'm about to mill some chemicals for a screened red gum mixture to see how that differs. Can't wait to get a mill though. This is interesting stuff. The more you learn, the more questions you have.

[dagabu]

There are a lot of names for black powder and a lot of confusion about it as well. The consensus from the masters is that it does not become Black Powder until the charcoal is filled with the KNO3 as is commercial BP. The alcohol and red gum method as well as the CIA method also result in what we call black powder (lower case) but not traditional Black Powder (upper case).

 

Lets start will separate blade or ball milled ingredients, 75 parts KNO3, 15 Parts charcoal and 10 parts sulfur.

 

If combined in a bowl and or screened you have green powder, scratch mix or rough powder. Rough powder will not break a ball shell the way you want, if burned in a heap it will leave slag behind.

 

If you take the rough powder and whet it with boiling water until it clumps easily in your fist and "rice" it or pass it through a 20 mesh screen or similar, you have pulverone. The grains crumble easily and will not provide the break you want either. It will burn faster then the rough powder but will still leave a puddle of slag when burnt. The actual steps are much longer and rather tedious and not at all necessary. Pulverone is used as burnable filler.

 

If you take your rough powder and ball mill it for 4 hours in a Sponeburgh style jar (6" PVC jar) with lead weights, you will have fully integrated powder that can be used for priming and blackmatch, cross match etc. It still cannot be used to break your shells but will leave almost no slag behind when it is burnt in a heap. It is commonly known as mill dust thought that is not the correct term as mill dust is the 100 mesh plus dust created when breaking pressed pucks of black powder up.

 

If you take the ball milled powder and add 4% by weight (some use less) of Red Gum into Denatured Alcohol (I use a little more then 4 oz per 500 grams of milled powder) and make a slightly wet (snow ball) ball of powder. You will then "rice" it through a window screen or similar. Once dried, you will have black powder. If you use a 10-12 mesh screen to rice it with, you will have a suitable lift and break powder.

 

If you take the same ball milled powder and add enough water to clump it in your fist, put it in a large comet pump or similar and compress to 1.7 grams per cubic centimeter, break up the pucks (some do so when they are damp and others do so when they are dry) and screen the grains to different meshes, this can be used for lift and break in shells and is used in all commercial shells for lift. This is traditional Black Powder.

Edited February 8, 2010 by dagabu

[jwitt]

Awesome! I've been choking and hacking, trying to swallow the pulverone/green mix/black powder pill for a while now!

 

So, now all I've to do is order that mill and some media- I've already sourced screens. After the charcoal I have on hand is mostly used up, it will be time to grab some material ideally suited to this task (or possibly make it).

 

Thanks for explaining it so well Dagabu.

Edited February 9, 2010 by jwitt

[dagabu]

On to burst charges:

 

The traditional paper ball shell creates the containment that is needed to burst the shell symmetrically by using pasted strips of virgin kraft paper pasted on with wheat paste. Each size uses a different number of layers to accomplish this. Generally speaking, a 3" ball shell needs some help with a round break and black powder may need a boost such as slow flash or whistle to help propagate the fire to all of the components before the shell bursts.

 

Plastic ball shells are unique in the regard that they "spill" the contents readily and display poorly when not broken correctly. Plastic shells need a stronger booster and more robust spiking such as the spiking that filament tape provides. A booster is definitely needed to accomplish a good break and up to 5 grams of whistle or 4 grams of slow flash can make a dramatic difference in the same ball shell.

 

I personally use coated rice hulls for break, I whet them slightly with a very dilute NC lacquer and add 1% whistle by weight to dry 4:1 BP coated rice hulls. Never use water to apply whistle, it will ruin the whistle and make a soggy mess!

 

D

[jwitt]

OK- even breaks are yet another point in favor of paper over plastic. I'll be trying to make the most of my workshop time- it's out in the country about a half hour away from home, so plastic seems quicker, but if quality suffers...no reason putting all that work into shells and not getting the best result I can achieve.

 

With regard to burst- I'm going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that coating the whistle or slow flash onto BP rice hulls would make for a more even burn as the gasses flow through the shell than would a flash bag suspended in the burst charge?

 

I'm also assuming that booster compositions that are slower than 70/30 are superior because they aren't as violent and are less likely to blow stars blind?

 

And finally- soft-breaking shells, like a willow or some similar charcoal based sparky effect- I'd definitely want to go paper on them, and see if I could get a nice break by making/using the hottest BP I can. Sounds like I'll be ordering some good charcoal lumps to supplement my airfloat.

 

Man I'm lucky to have gotten in on the half-off deal- went 50/50 on a $300 order, so there isn't much more we need except magnalium for Veline color stars and the chems for "super prime." ...although I'm not sure we'll even make it to the color stars for the 4th...but that's a question for another thread.

 

PS I just started using "Mcrosoft OneNote" for my pyro notebook...man that makes collecting all this information easy!

 

Thanks again for the help!

[dagabu]

OK- even breaks are yet another point in favor of paper over plastic. I'll be trying to make the most of my workshop time- it's out in the country about a half hour away from home, so plastic seems quicker, but if quality suffers...no reason putting all that work into shells and not getting the best result I can achieve.

 

I don't think so personally, it just takes different materials and break charges to get the job done. I prefer plastic to paper for my inserts, mutt stars, bow ties and falling leaves.

 

With regard to burst- I'm going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that coating the whistle or slow flash onto BP rice hulls would make for a more even burn as the gasses flow through the shell than would a flash bag suspended in the burst charge?

 

Flash bags are great at getting the shell to open but not so great at lighting the stars evenly. There may be conflicts with chemicals that make it necessary to use a flash bag and times where time constraints necessitate their use as well. Coating rice hulls gives fire better and your break will be more consistent in a ball shell where a canister shell with stacked pumped stars really needs the flash bag to evenly disperse the stars in smaller canisters.

 

I'm also assuming that booster compositions that are slower than 70/30 are superior because they aren't as violent and are less likely to blow stars blind?

 

Don't confuse brisiance with speed. There are compounds that have less brisiance but have more shearing force then 'F', it is the brisiance that 'F' creates that shatters stars and throws them blind.

 

And finally- soft-breaking shells, like a willow or some similar charcoal based sparky effect- I'd definitely want to go paper on them, and see if I could get a nice break by making/using the hottest BP I can. Sounds like I'll be ordering some good charcoal lumps to supplement my airfloat.

 

That is kind of a mixed bag with charcoal based comps. Horse tail should be dumped, plastic canisters work very well for this but willow needs a nice round burst that paper can give it at low pressures.

 

Man I'm lucky to have gotten in on the half-off deal- went 50/50 on a $300 order, so there isn't much more we need except magnalium for Veline color stars and the chems for "super prime." ...although I'm not sure we'll even make it to the color stars for the 4th...but that's a question for another thread.

 

Spend your next $50.00 on a membership to Passfire, you will find chemical prices to be yet again half of what you paid Harry on that half off sale.

 

PS I just started using "Mcrosoft OneNote" for my pyro notebook...man that makes collecting all this information easy!

 

Thanks again for the help!

Edited February 9, 2010 by dagabu

[jrin0630]

OK- even breaks are yet another point in favor of paper over plastic. I'll be trying to make the most of my workshop time- it's out in the country about a half hour away from home, so plastic seems quicker, but if quality suffers...no reason putting all that work into shells and not getting the best result I can achieve.

 

With regard to burst- I'm going out on a limb here, but it seems to me that coating the whistle or slow flash onto BP rice hulls would make for a more even burn as the gasses flow through the shell than would a flash bag suspended in the burst charge?

 

I'm also assuming that booster compositions that are slower than 70/30 are superior because they aren't as violent and are less likely to blow stars blind?

 

And finally- soft-breaking shells, like a willow or some similar charcoal based sparky effect- I'd definitely want to go paper on them, and see if I could get a nice break by making/using the hottest BP I can. Sounds like I'll be ordering some good charcoal lumps to supplement my airfloat.

 

Man I'm lucky to have gotten in on the half-off deal- went 50/50 on a $300 order, so there isn't much more we need except magnalium for Veline color stars and the chems for "super prime." ...although I'm not sure we'll even make it to the color stars for the 4th...but that's a question for another thread.

 

PS I just started using "Mcrosoft OneNote" for my pyro notebook...man that makes collecting all this information easy!

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

In terms of booster compositions, I have had good results with "slow flash" 50/30/20- Kno3/Sulfur/German Dark Al and whistle mix (70/30- Kclo4 and Sodium Benzoate). The advantage of the whistle mix is that it provides plenty of power without the bright flash you get from flash powder. In some cases when you want the effect of a bright flash during the break, the slow flash works well. I never used hot flash (70/30) but would imagine it's probably easy to use too much and cause a blind break.

[dagabu]

In terms of booster compositions, I have had good results with "slow flash" 50/30/20- Kno3/Sulfur/German Dark Al and whistle mix (70/30- Kclo4 and Sodium Benzoate).

 

Good point, I had forgotten the slo-flash. You may wish to save the good German dark Al though, 325 mesh flake like that found in making paint reflect works as well with this type of flash. In fact, any sub 325 mesh Al works fine in slo-flash.

 

D

[jwitt]

I did confuse brisiance with speed- but I did some refresher reading and things make more sense now.

 

As far as slo-flash vs. whistle...I have plenty of dark Al on hand, but that's not something to be wasted, and I'd rather not have the white light, so it looks like I'll be using appropriate quantities of whistle mix. Then again, I have a note that I'd like to get a little 325 mesh Al anyway...

 

Canister shells- Dagabu- you're referring to the "Italian" style string-spiked paper cans? Man, those look plain cool once assembled, and the effects in the sky are impressive. I might have to break out the roll of twine once I get this ball shell thing down.

 

With all the references to Passfire I've seen on this forum, I think that $50 would be well-spent indeed. Especially if I could get my hands on less expensive chemicals.

 

Being confident that I'll be able to make suitable BP once I get my hands on that mill, I think I now have a good knowledge base with which to start the experiments! Argh, it's cold, low humidity, and I'm stuck in town. Guess I'll just keep reading and taking notes.

 

Next up is a thread on my planned star compositions.

[Mumbles]

You can get a guest account on passfire if you want to look around. You get access to a few articles, but access to the whole forum. Trust me, money well spent.

[Bonny]

Next up is a thread on my planned star compositions.

 

A better idea is to read (many) the threads on star compositions . Try what's there and see what you like. Then add to the info that's there. It helps keep the forum more organized.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Bonny

[dagabu]

Canister shells- Dagabu- you're referring to the "Italian" style string-spiked paper cans? Man, those look plain cool once assembled, and the effects in the sky are impressive. I might have to break out the roll of twine once I get this ball shell thing down.

 

Actually, the canister shells I was speaking of are a bastardization of the Italian shells. Yes they are spiked and papered but an existing core would be used instead of a hand made one though it takes no time to roll them yourself, I am just lazy

 

I get paper towel cores from work and they make great small canister shells for 2" mortars (very quite to fire too) and rocket headerings (combination word meaning both a header and a heading). I spike them with cotton or strapping tape depending on the end use.

 

D

[dagabu]

You can get a guest account on passfire if you want to look around. You get access to a few articles, but access to the whole forum. Trust me, money well spent.

 

Sorry Mumbles, I use APC all the time too, I think I learn the same both places but Passfire can be a real challenge when you disagree with an established builder.

 

You know WHO I mean...

[Arthur]

The techniques to get a good break from paper shells and from plastic shells are different, initially dont try to achieve both -you will not!

Paper shells need a lot of pasting but will break well with Meal on carrier (rice hulls or rice Krispies) With plastic hemis you will need a booster of flash or whistle to get a good break. -Too many differences to get everything right first time.

 

Initially get a supply of really good fast BP and sort it by mesh size. The best BP is milled in a ball mill (loads of topics and posts) with 75, 15 10 ratio. The charcoal is really important willow is the UK traditional best but Alder and pine do well. Vine and balsa charcoal makes very fast BP straw makes dangerously sensitive BP.

Traditional BP is dry pressed into pucks then corned (broken) into fine grains. DIY BP is usually milled with 4% added dextrin then moistened slightly then riced through either a cheese grater or a sieve about 8 mesh. BP with an added 1.5% (max) of redgum and riced after damping with alcohol makes a weak grained but very fast BP. Whatever method you use get it really DRY before use - at least a week after it feels dry! If you run your fingers theough useable BP it doesnt darken the skin, if the BP is even slightly moist the dust will stick to your fingers.

 

Coarser powder is lift finer powder is break, mill dust is powder that passes 100mesh and this is usually used for fuse and for making meal coated hulls for a lighter break powder that fires very quickly.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Arthur

[dagabu]

The techniques to get a good break from paper shells and from plastic shells are different, initially dont try to achieve both -you will not!

Paper shells need a lot of pasting but will break well with Meal on carrier (rice hulls or rice Krispies) With plastic hemis you will need a booster of flash or whistle to get a good break. -Too many differences to get everything right first time.

 

Nice way to wrap it up concisely.

 

D

[jwitt]

That almost sounds like a challenge (I'm kidding...mostly...)

 

No, I do understand what you're saying though- can't jump from one thing to another constantly and expect to refine any single process.

 

I'll probably throw a few tester plastic shells together first thing in the morning on the first assembly day, so after pasting up a couple tester paper shells I can have a little fun at nightfall. If my results end up less than ideal, I'll be expecting that, but if they work well, then so much the better! Of course, that's after learning to make BP, and after making stars, which may or may not turn out well on the first try...must...have...patience.

 

And now I must find a suitable lance tube- when I get home, a little bit of something must be burned.

Edited February 9, 2010 by jwitt

[Arthur]

Using crushable carrier (rice hulls or rice krispies etc) you can over fill the shell a little then force it to close with some crushing! Saves having a loose shell or having to make several attempts at exactly the right amount of break.

 

If you take really good notes and work very carefully you can make good shells in both hemi materials -its really hard to get both right first time though.

[jwitt]

Just updating here while the site's DNS problems get resolved...

 

I've decided on paper shells exclusively- if I want instant gratification, I can always experiment with a string-spiked paper cylinder shell or two.

 

I'll be using my commercial airfloat in stars, and I'm going to buy a 20# box of alder from customcharcoal.com for BP. I'll coat that onto mail-order rice hulls for break.

 

All that powder will be milled in a "15#" mill- one of the yellow painted ones available on ebay. I'll grab a blue 1 gal jar from an ebay seller.

 

Media- that's a friggin' killer. I have a line on linotype lead, so that's either going to be made into .50 balls or poured into sections of pipe. I'd really like to eliminate lead contamination from my BP and charcoal stars, but since alumina can turn a mill run into a BP salute...ehh...it would be a shame to lose my mill (even though I have a location that I could use to run it with "risky" media) With my luck, I won't be able to find my old lead pot and ladle, so I'll have to source more materials for that operation too. Sheesh. Goin' for broke here

 

 

But after pricing brass round stock...$50 for enough linotype lead (estimated cost) plus all that labor making media...or, by my calculations, $80 for enough 1/2" round stock and just cut it up...hmmm. Maybe I can get around using lead after all. But maybe I'm way off in my calculation of ~400 1/2" pieces to fill the 1 gal jar and these numbers are way off.

Edited February 22, 2010 by jwitt

[dagabu]

J,

 

Don't get all concerned with alumina, it wont spark, it was the impact that caused the burst not a spark. If you do go the way of filling copper with lead, cut the copper into sections first and pour the lead into each piece, you will get air pockets any other way.

 

Alder? 50#? LUCKY!!!

 

Try a kitchen garbage disposal next time but do it outside and prepare for a mess!

[jwitt]

Of course the mill will be safely away from fleshy things and buildings on a long extension cord, so if it explodes, it explodes...and if not, then hooray, mill dust!

 

And it's 20 lbs of alder charcoal for lift/break

 

Cowboy will probably be my charcoal for stars once I run out of commercial stuff.

 

Heading out for a week and a half in the woods on the 13th, come back, get comfy, and start spending time out at the farm doing pyro work. Still gotta hammer out some production schedules (I've learned time is spent way more productively that way) but that's gonna be in the end of March- gotta keep my mind on the upcoming task at hand! That's hard to do...

 

Spent some time on passfire on a guest account last week. That's going to be a valuable resource in addition to this site. The notebook got thicker. I'll be a member there after the upcoming batch of expenses (mill) is digested. I think I need a gizzard like a bird.

 

Gonna try to stir up a nice agricultural grade source of KNO3 too...get the cost down enough for massive amounts of TT and C6 stars.

Edited March 4, 2010 by jwitt

[laserkoi]

thank you for all the info posted here . it has being a great help to me .