Need help on Silicone blue stars.

[Twotails]

Ok so heres the rundown I used this formula Potassium perchlorate.............................70

Silicone..........................................10

Copper(II)oxide...................................10

PVC...............................................15

 

Mixed it up in a 100g batch, and it seems realy powdery. it dosent stick at all, and is almost a free flowing powder. Im realy confused on this one.(First time makeing these...)

[Mumbles]

You probably didn't use the right material. Did you use Silicon or Silicone? Silicon is an element used for primes primarily, kind of a purple/brown/blue powder. Silicone is a putty or gel type substance used to seal bath tubs and sinks.

[Twotails]

Silicone, bought it at walmart.

[Mumbles]

What kind of silicone did you buy?

[Twotails]

GE Silicone (II), i saw somewhere that is what's used. I also have a tube of maystays clear all-use silicone.

[xetap]

Silicone, bought it at walmart.

The silicone needed is a GE caulking compound- GE II Silicone #5000- used to seal bathrooms, windows, etc.

 

You might have gotten a silicone spray or liquid that's used to unstick locks, lube rubber, etc. Different things.

 

Otherwise, the ratios are wrong if you got the correct silicone, when used as a rocket fuel it's a horribly messy, sticky comp- it never would be described as "almost a free flowing powder". At 10% it might not be as bad as the rocket fuel, but still not free flowing.

 

For rockets, the formula is:

 

Blue Strobe Rocket Pyrotechnic Formula

Ammonium perchlorate.......................63%

Copper oxide, black ...........................10%

PVC powder........................................5%

GE II Silicone #5000..........................22%

[TheEskimo]

How is the color for these stars? I have seen the comps that use GE silicone II with AP, but I have never seen them in action. Does only Silicone II work, or can the other 100% silicone caulks be used?

Twotails--where did you get this comp? I searched here, and on Google, and all I could find was the blue AP rocket fuel. I imagine that I could work out the stoich ratios for that using KP, but it would be nice if there was a list of KP based silicone stars. Are they limited to blues, or have reds, greens etc been tried?

Sorry for not helping, but these sound nice (no wetting, cuts easy, strong, dries quickly without being driven-in, etc).

[Carbon796]

I've made the Blue Strobe rocket formula as cut stars before. Xetap has the fomula listed correctly. They come out to a really nice, easy to work with, play-doo like consistancy. Your formula has less than half of the correct amount of silicone, and it also adds up to 105% Which is going to make your binder/fuel ( silicone ) percentage even less. If you want to use the formula you listed, I would cut the KP by 10% and up the silicone 10% Maybe drop 5% of the PVC to get your dry chemical percentage close to ideal.

[TheEskimo]

Well, I just made a hundred gram batch. I went close to what carbon said:

KP65

CuO10

PVC5

Silicone20

They are a nice playdouch consistency, and cut easily. They're fun to play with; I was making figurines . Anyways, I cut them, and they are drying. They burn a white blue as of right now, and give off a crapload of smoke. I imagine that the color, and smoke will get better once the solvent evaporates. These are really nice; no need for solvent, and cut, and pump well.

[NightHawkInLight]

KP, cool that's a new one. I'll have to give it a shot.

[Ventsi]

Huh, cool. I was playing around with something simular the past week. The best colors were from this comp.:

 

КPerch--------65

CuCO3--------10

Saran----------11

GE Silicone 1--20

 

I got a washed out blue[with a light purple tint] at the most, not the best, but usable. I'll try to find the video when I get back later.

The comp is far from play dough consistency and is a major pain in the ass to mix thoroughly, I can defiantly see the one with 10% acting relatively free flowing.

Is there anything I can do to make easier to mix, will Acetone/M.E.K. dissolve the Silicone at all?

 

And

Eskimo/Twotails in my experience these are way too weak once they are dry, they need some extra binder.

[TheEskimo]

Have you tried it with the silicone II? That's what all the AP based comps call for. Mine aren't dried yet, and the blue is comparable to Conkling#2. I will have to wait and see how strong they are. Really, it is not a good consistancy? I just squeezed it out of the tube, mixed in the pvc, and CuO, and then mixed in the KP. As I said earlier, it was malleable, like a good clay. I wonder why some people get really sticky or dry mixes, and some of us get a great consistency?

Sciencey peoples--would CuO or CuCO3 give a better blue? And would saran affect it much compared to the pvc?

[Twotails]

Im gonna try rescuing(the now cured) failed silicone stars that were made. I'll Re-do them to the rocket formulas amounts and go from there. I found the formula on Pyrocreations.>.<

 

EDIT:

 

The first mix(that was screwed up) if hopefully drying, out side

 

I then made two compositions(both using the Blue strobe rocket formula) Exept i replaced the 63% AP with Potassium Perchlorate in one of the batches.

 

When tested moist, The AP burned with a quiet blue flame envalope. The KP based Mixture was tested moist also, and burned with an almost comparable blue, but made a fercer, "Hissing" noise.

 

Im currently working on Mg based Silicone star (blue), Its not going to add up to 100%, but hopefuly with a little tinkering it will.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Twotails

[xetap]

Anecdotal evidence suggests it needs to be GE Silicone II. Not GE I, or another type of silicone.

 

I've only made the rocket comp w/ GE II, so that's all I can speak to. It was a sticky mess to work with, you definitely want to lay out newspaper to work over- it will cure and stick to every surface you touch. Obviously gloves are a must (they should be anyway) w/this stuff.

Edited January 25, 2010 by xetap

[Twotails]

Yes, A sticky mess it sure is, a little bit got on my wrist when i was mixing, and its a PITA to get off( a cotten ball in acetone got it to come off).

[Ventsi]

We all know the Blue AP Silicone strobe right?

Blue Strobe Rocket Pyrotechnic Formula

Ammonium perchlorate63%

Copper oxide, black10%

PVC powder5%

GE II Silicone #5000 (bathroom caulk)22%

 

 

What mesh should the AP be? Super fine or granular..?

Also can the PVC powder be replaced with say PVC based glue? That might make it easier to mix too...

Edited March 16, 2010 by Ventsi

[dagabu]

Sadly, no. The PVC powder is just that, 100% PVC, while the glue is made of several things, most of them you don't want in these stars. I blade mill my AP in a separate grinder until it is a fine powder.

 

BTW- the Sili II stars make a decent "strobe" effect in tubes (inserts) from shells.

[dagabu]

A cost savings tip:

 

Find your local pottery place that sells clay and glaze and ask for Red Iron, Black Iron, Copper Oxides. They are significantly cheaper then buying online and you can pick them up in your travels.

 

D

[Ventsi]

Any other replacements for the PVC? "Sculpy" comes to mind but thats likely more impure than the glue.

 

Thanks, I have a pottery shop relatively close to me that I have not checked out yet but I'm planning on it. I had ran out of CuO so I just decomposed some Copper Carbonate. Pretty convenient chemical if you ask me.

[gordohigh]

I guess you mean decompose by heat? If so, I have done that, decomposed copper carbonate by heating on the grill and stirring in a little "soup can", container. I put a platter under it to make sure I don't dump any, and monitor it the whole 30 min process. The resulting CuO works very well. I always wash it and decant several times because I make my CuCO3 from root killer, a whole other process, but simple.

 

 

I think next time I will heat it on my turkey fryer type burner, if I need some before I could get it.

[Mumbles]

There is an easier way to make CuO from root killer if you want it directly. If you use a hydroxide to precipitate copper hydroxide, it will decompose in boiling water to CuO. In fact, if you do it on a large enough batch and use solid NaOH or KOH, the heat of solvation can be enough to decompose it right away.

 

 

[gordohigh]

Thats good to know, thanks. I actually tried the first batch using copper carb and heated the water to disolve the copper sulphate a little too hot and it also turned into CuO directly. Then, I was watching a video on youtube and saw the process I used with just baking soda and made up about a lb of the copper carb. I just got some bismuth trioxide and wanted to experiment making some dragons eggs and needed the CuO for that comp and boy was I surprised at how well they work. I do need to research the mixing method more though, what a PITA mixing the NCL into the mix. I read where you could mix it in a ziploc but I guess I have the wrong kind, mine started melting.