Shell not in mortar?

[PyroMania]

If you ignites a shell not in a mortar does it launch well as you ignites it in a mortar?

[pyrogeorge]

how can it launch without mortar???

[TrueBluePyro]

Think of the shell as a bullet and the morta as a gun... Of course it isnt going to launch as well, if at all.

[Arthur]

The lift charge would move the shell a few metres then the burst would break the shell with it's usual burst radius from ground level. Something I'd want to be a mile away from if the shell was any size.

 

Seriously very dangerous.

[ropyro]

If you ignites a shell not in a mortar does it launch well as you ignites it in a mortar?

Why would you wanna do this anyway? For the thrill of it?... Try jumping with a bungee cord from a tree: you will get the same result... Looks like a "kewl" question to me...really!

[TheSidewinder]

If you ignites a shell not in a mortar does it launch well as you ignites it in a mortar?

 

The answer, in one word, is: NO!

[50AE]

/offtopic: How do you guys get ideas to ask such questions?

[Ralph]

kwell is sitting around bashing his head with a rock(because he has no mortar to fire his shells from) scratches his arse gets up trips over his camp fire and falls into it his cloak is made of hemp which just happens to be a high THC strain and it starts embering the now high kwell find a large shiny transparent object above his head begins emitting heat and light and he is like we can totally do this

[dagabu]

kwell is sitting around bashing his head with a rock(because he has no mortar to fire his shells from) scratches his arse gets up trips over his camp fire and falls into it his cloak is made of hemp which just happens to be a high THC strain and it starts embering the now high kwell find a large shiny transparent object above his head begins emitting heat and light and he is like we can totally do this

 

LOL!

 

OR- he had "two" beers and thought, "maybe if i just laid the shell on the ground with the lift under it it will go up!"

 

Have we heard back from him? Perhaps he has already tried it.

[Swede]

We need to cultivate noobs, no matter how strange the question. It is FAR better for the hobby, for the individual, for everybody, to instruct in a professional manner. Pyromania, to answer your question, it is the rapidly expanding gases of the lift charge (usually plain black powder) that provide the boost to get the shell in the air. If the lift charge and shell are not surrounded by a HDPE (Polyethylene, NOT PVC) plastic mortar, the lift gases will simply escape to the sides, and only a tiny fraction will actually do work and lift the shell.

 

When in a tube, almost 100% of the gases have only one way to go... directly up, against the shell. Think of an old-fashioned cannon. If you place a cannon ball on a pile of powder, and ignite the powder, the ball is going nowhere. Place the load in a cannon, and you have a high-velocity device.

[dagabu]

We need to cultivate noobs, no matter how strange the question. It is FAR better for the hobby, for the individual, for everybody, to instruct in a professional manner. Pyromania, to answer your question, it is the rapidly expanding gases of the lift charge (usually plain black powder) that provide the boost to get the shell in the air. If the lift charge and shell are not surrounded by a HDPE (Polyethylene, NOT PVC) plastic mortar, the lift gases will simply escape to the sides, and only a tiny fraction will actually do work and lift the shell.

 

When in a tube, almost 100% of the gases have only one way to go... directly up, against the shell. Think of an old-fashioned cannon. If you place a cannon ball on a pile of powder, and ignite the powder, the ball is going nowhere. Place the load in a cannon, and you have a high-velocity device.

 

Sorry, he just made it soooo easy....

[Bonny]

I remember when first starting, making a comet complete with lift, but the tutorial didn't say anything about a mortar. it jumped off the ground a few feet and burned away in the grass. A good learning experience, so nothing wrong with the question. I'd have probably asked too if I had known about the forum.

[dagabu]

I remember when first starting, making a comet complete with lift, but the tutorial didn't say anything about a mortar. it jumped off the ground a few feet and burned away in the grass. A good learning experience, so nothing wrong with the question. I'd have probably asked too if I had known about the forum.

 

I guess the reason why I jumped (sorry again) on this is because I do 10 hours of reading for every single hour of firework making and one minute of posting online.

 

I make mistakes, sure, I can walk on water, we all can up here in the nort but I joined a pyrotechnics club, did the shooting safety cert course, got my shooters OK with the club , attended a PGI convention, took the classes and then group built shells before I EVER built a ball shell.

 

I have been making rockets for a long time and that is still my first love but basic fireworks questions should not be answered here on the pages, one needs to read, read both the hundreds of books and manuals, the forums about safety, gain book knowledge and then and only then ask these questions.

 

I don't mind being scolded, I deserve it and can stand the heat pretty well but to let that go unchallenged is irresponsible.

 

There should be a rule here that states, "Anyone, noob or not, shall be redirected to the START HERE page if their question shows obvious neglect of obtaining the basic understandings of pyrotechnics and safety".

 

I may still be there if this were a rule, I admit but still, it was a lot like the questions I got after we did a "Burn Notice" marathon where Michael makes a flash bomb.

 

I had a room full of K3wls wanting to know how to do that. I made pumpkin pie for them the easy way and that changed their minds.

 

END RANT

[Ralph]

We need to cultivate noobs, no matter how strange the question. It is FAR better for the hobby, for the individual, for everybody, to instruct in a professional manner. Pyromania, to answer your question, it is the rapidly expanding gases of the lift charge (usually plain black powder) that provide the boost to get the shell in the air. If the lift charge and shell are not surrounded by a HDPE (Polyethylene, NOT PVC) plastic mortar, the lift gases will simply escape to the sides, and only a tiny fraction will actually do work and lift the shell.

 

When in a tube, almost 100% of the gases have only one way to go... directly up, against the shell. Think of an old-fashioned cannon. If you place a cannon ball on a pile of powder, and ignite the powder, the ball is going nowhere. Place the load in a cannon, and you have a high-velocity device.

 

we "cultivated the noob" dagabu was just laughing at my poor attempt at humour. and I think he is going to go have a good read now and find some good info its hard to motivate some one to study and a little internet humiliation is probably the easiest way to ensure that they do learn

 

 

 

edit: this is would be a really good time to point out that the plant in my display picture is not weed but a wollemi pine (just in case you guys thought that with my reference to weed that I was a stoner or something)

Edited January 11, 2010 by Ralph

[dagabu]

we "cultivated the noob" dagabu was just laughing at my poor attempt at humour. and I think he is going to go have a good read now and find some good info its hard to motivate some one to study and a little internet humiliation is probably the easiest way to ensure that they do learn

 

It worked for me, I am looking for old threads that I replied to so I can find and post some real good screw ups, I am sure I have quite a few.

[Bonny]

It worked for me, I am looking for old threads that I replied to so I can find and post some real good screw ups, I am sure I have quite a few.

 

I'm sure I have a lot of screw ups too, but I'm not going to look for mine. That's why a forum is great for learning , as others will help and correct you where needed (usually).

[Swede]

I'm not chastising anyone; everyone here had to start somewhere. I've done some incredibly stupid things in my life, most of them predating the internet as a functional entity. I've already described some stupidity from my kewl days and I am lucky to have all my vision and digits. How about making ground salutes that are based upon friction-sensitive RP and chlorate? That was 1973. Nitroglycerin 3 years later that almost blinded me. I would have killed for such a resource as APC back then, because i wasn't ignoring safety, it was more a matter of innocent ignorance. My only point here is that we need to cultivate interested beginners, that's all.

[TheSidewinder]

Well-said, Swede.

 

I've been guilty of stupidity. Who hasn't?

 

So, if you're still reading this PyroMania, take to heart the positive comments and chalk up the teasing as education.

 

We simply want everyone to stay SAFE.

 

You definitely do NOT want to fire off any device on the ground, if it's intended to be used in a mortar. There's just NO telling where the components will go.

[psyco_1322]

First aerial shell I ever lit was not in a mortar. I didn't have one, got the shell from a friend, and dad made me light it. I didn't even understand how it worked. So I stood it up in the drive way and lit it. It was a little festival ball and it popped up and a couple seconds later..poof! stars everywhere. It was also way before my pyro days. Edited January 16, 2010 by psyco_1322

[Cookieman]

First aerial shell I ever lit was not in a mortar. I didn't have one, got the shell from a friend, and dad made me light it. I didn't even understand how it worked. So I stood it up in the drive way and lit it. It was a little festival ball and it popped up and a couple seconds later..poof! stars everywhere. It was also way before my pyro days.

 

 

I watched 1000 ways to die and saw a drunk guy put what looked like an arial shell in a mortar and lit it.When it didn't go off he decieded to look inside just in time for it to blow up in his face.

[quicksilver]

I know this is a bit OT but I have had this question for some time now....

 

I saw some "pro" people do a show some time back and they used a METAL mortar of approx 12" welded, etc. I asked about it and one said that they use Schedule 80 pipe and very carefully tested lift charge.

 

Naturally I thought this was quite unsafe however I am NOT a "pro"& wondered if ANYONE had seen folks use re-usable steel mortars? They were cagey thinking I may be from the insurance company (I'm an older individual) but they said that such a short & strong type pipe was fine so long as the welding was professional, lift charge light & tested and the units 3-4" (there were several for a unique effect they had). These things were REALLY wel made and had the ability to change angle, use electrical ignition, etc, etc.

 

Schedule 80 pipe is seriously strong and has no seam and these looked quite well made but the idea of such a device goes against every safety agenda I feel in my gut. Am I missing something or DO some "pros" use such a device?

[dagabu]

I know this is a bit OT but I have had this question for some time now....

 

I saw some "pro" people do a show some time back and they used a METAL mortar of approx 12" welded, etc. I asked about it and one said that they use Schedule 80 pipe and very carefully tested lift charge.

 

Naturally I thought this was quite unsafe however I am NOT a "pro"& wondered if ANYONE had seen folks use re-usable steel mortars? They were cagey thinking I may be from the insurance company (I'm an older individual) but they said that such a short & strong type pipe was fine so long as the welding was professional, lift charge light & tested and the units 3-4" (there were several for a unique effect they had). These things were REALLY wel made and had the ability to change angle, use electrical ignition, etc, etc.

 

Schedule 80 pipe is seriously strong and has no seam and these looked quite well made but the idea of such a device goes against every safety agenda I feel in my gut. Am I missing something or DO some "pros" use such a device?

 

Yes, we have several steel mortars for multibreak canisters since the pressure needed to propel them to viewing height is greater then the HDPE or fiberglass tubes can handle. We bury all of our steel and put a cinder block under them to keep them from 'drilling'. These tubes are also set back quite a bit further back then the other mortars of the same size.

 

D