lift powder

[FASTNITRO]

Would fast or hot lift powder cause the shell to burst when leaving the mortar? Four inch shell with two disks on the bottom and hot melt glue, that was spiked and pasted. Shell weights 1 lb with 1 oz homemade powder ( 70 gr potassium percholate, 23 gr charcoal airfloat, 5 gr pyro alum, 2 gr potassium dirch). The powder was 10 to 12 mesh but blew up leaving the tube. I am wondering if the powder is to fast?

[optimus]

Where did you get the formula for that 'lift' powder?

 

Normal lift powder shouldn't contain pyro Aluminium, Perchlorates or Dichromates. Apart from blackpowder, I've only ever heard of benzolift and flash (in very specialised applications) being used for lift.

 

Just use 'normal' granulated/corned blackpowder as lift and you shouldn't have any problems.

[psymon]

I use Pyrotechnics Guild International optimum lift powder formula Potassium nitrate 74 Charcoal 14 Sulfur 12.

The charcoal HAS to be Willow or other very fast burning charcoal. I sometimes have to use a little bit extra lift in there to get a decent height but this one works best for me. I dont have to ball mill it for hours, just about one hour does fine. Then I granulate it and away I go...

[ApocalypsePlease]

The charcoal HAS to be Willow or other very fast burning charcoal.

Really? I don't think this is a problem for most, but I don't know why you couldn't use a bit slower BP, only more.

[_DB_]

Granulating BP speeds its burn rate up anyway. After granulating fast meal and slower meal I couldn't tell the difference between the two. But Willow does make superior BP.

[hst45]

FASTNITRO, have you used this lift formula before, perhaps on smaller shells? I, like optimus, have never heard of this type of formula for lift powder. With perchlorate and aluminum in the mix i beleive the speed could probably crack the shell, and/or blow the fuse into the shell causing the flowerpot.

 

if the shell was smaller, with less mass, you might get away with it, because the shell might start to accelerate more quickly than a larger shell thus lessening the pressure wave on the base of the shell.

 

I have to confess that I've never tried a flash/lift, but if you could work out the premature ignition problem it might be an interesting effect; flash on the ground.....break overhead. Two effects in one!

 

psymon, i can't get willow up here, so I use poplar. My lift mix is:

 

73 KNO3

14 Poplar airfloat

9 sulfur

4 dextrin

 

i corn this with 70/30 ethanol/water through a 10 mesh screen. On paper, it seems overfueled, but it burns clean for me.

[FASTNITRO]

The formula came from Gary Purrington. I cut the powder back to one half ounce per pound of shell weight. The shell sure gets with it!

[psymon]

There is a massive difference between these charcoals (Willow, poplar, Alder) and the stuff you buy from a shop as LUMPWOOD charcoal. In my experience I found that LUMPWOOD charcoal is far inferior.

 

I tried to use LUMPWOOD charcoal for my lift and never managed to get shells out of the mortar more than 10 foot high. Then when I made my own willow charcoal it really a difference. Now I can easily launch a shell 200 feet in the air with a very nice BOOM.

Poplar is good as it is a very fast burning charcoal. As is Alder. I have tried Alder and Willow charcoals and dont see much difference between the two.

[xxNAMTTIDxx]

How well would airfloat charcoal work for lift?

[Mephistos Minion]

It depends what sort it is. You need to mill the indredients mixed for good meal powder anyway, so all charcoal is eventually airfloat. You can't just say, "Ok this is airfloat charcoal, it will work well" because any charcoal can be airfloat.

 

If you are reffering to "commercial airfloat" which I believe is a random mix of hardwoods, then I think others have rated it as average for lift. Use willow, alder, poplar, balsa or paulownia charcoal for good/best results.

[austar]

How about lumpwood charcol with potassium perchlorate, would that compensate for the inferior charcol???

[NeighborJ]

Any perchlorate mixture burns slow at atmosphere but when it is confined it builds pressure exponentially and much faster then kno3. The result would likely be a flowerpot or a split gun. Doping your burst with it could be beneficial but I'd advise against using it for lift. I've used air float before and it worked but I had low breaks once I got the timing right. I also needed a longer gun to make use of the slower powder. At some point I had to use a more reactive charcoal and all these issues went away.

[austar]

My issue atm is i dont have any quality charcol. I do have these pressed shaped coal bricks that i have ground down useing a grinder. I dont yet have a ball mill so trying to make do with what i have readily available. I am not yet building shells but playing with a star gun and doing very basic star mines. I am also hoping to start making small roman candles. The lack of a decant lift seems to be my downfall at present.

[pyronoob]

Eastern Red Cedar makes really nice lift powder.....you can buy it at Walmart or Tractor Supply as Cedar pet bedding.....i cook my own with a TLUD. Started with a one gallon and now have 2 five gallon setups.

[austar]

Being in australia things can be harder to get. I can get willow and vine at a price, its all air float but i have yet to buy or build a ball mill.

[Boophoenix]

Auster, although milling you charcoal will get the most preformance you may could grind some serviceable powders if you wanted to classify the airfloat out.

 

I did some classifiying for curiousity and about 67.25 percent of our commercial airfloat in the US will pass a 400 mesh screen. This could be as high as 75 percent as I may have a little blinding on the 325 screen.

 

If you have access to a garbage disposal grinder here's a classification I did on a sample. I haven't done a flow up test so the 400 mesh screen may have blinded over a little with that big spike.

 

This is 200 grams of ground alder using a waste king

 

60 mesh + 39.32g

 

120 mesh + 20.25g

 

200 mesh + 15.58g

 

230 mesh + 7.01g

 

270 mesh + 8.37g

 

325 mesh + 10.03g

 

400 mesh + 51.57g

 

pan + 48.50g

 

There are other ways to get the airfloat out if ya need to improvise with what's available to you.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Boophoenix

[austar]

I am looking at buying some vine charcol powder shortly, that dhould help immensely. At my first opportunity i will be making or purchasing a ball mill. As pine is readily available to me in australia i am going to try to mske my own charcoal from that. But i do live in suburbs so not always easy lol

I sm also wanting to try newspaper charcosl as i heard that works well as well. But for the moment i only have a coffee grinder to grind my charcoal. Just trying to do the best with what i have

[FlaMtnBkr]

My issue atm is i dont have any quality charcol. I do have these pressed shaped coal bricks that i have ground down useing a grinder. I dont yet have a ball mill so trying to make do with what i have readily available. I am not yet building shells but playing with a star gun and doing very basic star mines. I am also hoping to start making small roman candles. The lack of a decant lift seems to be my downfall at present.

You will never make good lift if you are trying to use charcoal briquets that are pressed and formed pucks of charcoal. In fact your BP will probably barely burn using that without a ball mill. Those use hardwood charcoal that aren't cooked optimally and still have chunks of uncooked wood and are combined with binders like clay so they hold their pressed shape. You can buy lump charcoal which is sometimes called cowboy charcoal which will probably be the best thing you can buy locally. It will still be made of hardwood and will retain the shape of the original piece of wood that was converted. If you grind this up it will probably be about like using commercial airfloat charcoal which doesn't make great powder but can be made to work if you use a ball mill and maybe add a little extra powder for lift, maybe 10% more than what is normally called for.

 

Your best bet for charcoal will be to search the forum for TLUD and read up on making one. When I first started I tried over a dozen types of wood that were easily accessible for me to get locally. I would suggest the same and see how they work and it will give you good practice making consistent BP. I also found a plant that gives me by far the hottest BP and is quite a bit hotter than anything else I tried including willow, chinaberry, and other popular woods. So you may find something that works great that is just out your back door. Actually, all except a couple I tried made BP more powerful than commercial Goex.

[dagabu]

Being in australia things can be harder to get. I can get willow and vine at a price, its all air float but i have yet to buy or build a ball mill.

 

Pet bedding is widely available is AUS, just make a simple metal paint can TLUD and make your own.

[Arthur]

Project number one in pyro is always to make good reliable BP. For which you will need to find a source of good timber for good charcoal. Willow, Alder, Vine, Eastern Red Cedar are among woods that make good charcoal, old Pine from old pallets or building (untreated wood) may be cheap and easy to find and may make good powder.

[austar]

A little update on my progress.

I have managed to fabricate a basic ball mill that seems to work quite well (still need/want ) a proper unit but that will come in time. I have made my own charcoal from some pine and as a result my bp has improved dramatically. I believe there is still much room for improvement but I seem to be on the right track. I tested my new bp in a star gun with a star that was just slightly to tight in the gum (not tight but didnt drop down loosely )

Well it went with a nice big bang and the star shot to the heavens at an incredible rate, shot blind tho but I think it was due to poor primeing. But the bp was so far improved by all measures.