TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I read Psyco_1322's blog recently and made his insta-campfire starter using NH4ClO4......6Linseed Oil...1 to start the fireplace, and the results were great, although a small flume of smoke came out into the house, so I wont be doing that again. Anyway, I am intrigued by how simple, yet effective this is. I have experimented with the formula, and so far I have found that ControlKClO4.........7Linseed oil...1 Using extremely fine milled oxidizer produces a very strong burn, but a bit "choppy" and the color is a very bold white. The comp is very homogeneous and is almost a play-doh consistency, but rather crumbly. I added 1 part CuO KClO4.........7Linseed oil...1CuO............1 which produced an O.K. blue flame, but had a very nasty red tip flame, like some of the Pihko AP blues. This addition smoothed the burn property out very well, and may have increased burn rate, although I havent really payed much attention to it. Next, I substituted the CuO for CuCO3 KClO4.........7Linseed oil...1CuCO3........1 This time, the blue was not as prevalent. It reverted back to more of the white flame, but brightened it up quite a bit, cutting it close to being almost uncomfortable to look at, but not quite. Anyway, this effect smoothed out the burn rate much more than the control, definitely had a slower burn rate with very copious smoke. While I am not sure what I am really testing here, I guess I am just learning the properties of copper salts. I digress again. My thoughts roam toward possible APCP rocket igniters and stars, but I feel that this may not be a very hot composition. Anyway, I will leave y'all with that, and I will update with my new interests.
Swede Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Very interesting experiments, TE! Did you have any ammonium perchlorate to compare to the potassium? I'll never cease to be amazed at how these common pyrotechnic oxidizers, when in intimate contact with just about anything flammable, can produce strong burning and effects. Linseed oil, polyurethane glue, sculpey clay, epoxy, various varnishes and resins of all sorts, are magically turned into pyrotechnic comps with differing attributes. In a way, that is one of the great pleasures (and one of the dangers) of experimentation... you are never quite sure of what you are going to get. I often wonder when the very first aluminum batch was atomized or flaked and then mixed with an oxidizer. I suspect the experimenters thought "WOW, Oh my!" or similar.
dagabu Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I suspect the experimenters thought "WOW, Oh my!" or similar. -Or- AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH, my hand, my hand!!
firetech Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I wonder how many things were discovered by accident...
dagabu Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Vulcanized Rubber Oh yeah, Spock wore them in the last movie, didn't he?
TheSidewinder Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 You must be talking about Intergalactic Prophylactics.
Ralph Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Many things were discorved by accident the ones i can remeber off the top of my head are Roy Plunkett discovereted PTFE or as we all know it teflon fleming with matches cant think of any more though i did a brain storm for a whity status update on facebook gunzaway might remeber them (i couldnt find it i looked back through my history)
dagabu Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 You must be talking about Intergalactic Prophylactics. (Snicker) I had to Google it, DUH!
Mumbles Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Going along with the theme slightly earlier, you can add Viagra to the list of accidental discoveries. It was originally meant as heart medication.
TheSidewinder Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 (Snicker) I had to Google it, DUH! LOL. Turns out my reference wasn't quite correct. Close, though. Take the prefix "Inter" off the first word. Search for "galactic prophylactic eddie murphy". T'was an old SNL reference.
firetech Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 Silly puttyVelcro, which was discovered when soldiers gear kept getting caught on burrs. Not sure it was an accident by definition but it wasn't intentional.
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted December 23, 2009 Author Posted December 23, 2009 @swede. Yes, I do have several different types of AP to test with. 90, 200, and 400 micron all atomized. I just like the uniformity of the KP right now. I really think it would be interesting to measure the thrust values of each oxidizers for the comp. This would actually make a very very effective road flare I would imagine. This stuff would make an excellent rocket delay. The flame intensity would make the rocket very easy to spot, and its slow burn rate would allow for good timing for headers.
Twotails Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 This reminds me(along the likes of stuff like this) today i dipped two fuses with a rubber compound (Liquid electrical tape), put two coats on them, and they work just as well as a time fuse(Slight fire breach on the side, easly fixed with two or three more coats) it doent penitrate the fuse, leaving the powder core in tact, its water proof, it makes the fuse bendable without splitting, or crimping, and can also fuse joints together with it(bare fuse over lapping, then coating both, allows for a nice passoff of fire, and is easyer than tape) the coats dry in a few hours, it seems like it will work! all thats left is to replace the fuse i normaly use in a shell for this, and see how it preforms. the liquid tape comes in spraypaint virson(not tested yet) or a jelly-like thick liquid in a jar(what i used) This might be useful as somthing, if you mixed an oxidizer into it, maby as a rubberized fule? i'll test it when my AP comes in. (i'll also it useing, KNO3, Pot.perchlorate, and pot.Chlorate) who knows, it may be useful. (the spray looks good for weatherproofing the outside of morters.)
psyco_1322 Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 Hmm...very interesting experiments. I might have left out the smoke detail....oops. I'm going to have to try and play around with KClO4 version now. I tried to make something that was nitrate based, specifically KNO3, so it would be cheaper. I could not get anything to burn consistent that would work effectively. The AP idea came from some random thing I made back in the day when I was playing around with oxidizers and different fuels. Remembering the incredibly slow burn rate with all the fire I went back and improved on it to a workable formula. KP seems to burn things very fiercely with a small, bright flame. This is why I moved away from it at first. I'd be interested in seeing the flames your getting out of those comps, video it if you try again and it's worth sharing. As for rocket delays and igniters, I think the "wet" portion would cause issues. Pressing liquids doesn't work, and if the oil soaks up into the tube there will be issues with it burning correctly. Igniters may be about the same, a semi-liquid igniter will be king funky...haha
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted December 25, 2009 Author Posted December 25, 2009 Several new developments came so far with the comp. I have discovered the most beautiful pink I have seen yet! I didn't video it, but I will post one shortly. It is: KClO4.............24Linseed oil........4Saran...............1SrCO3..............1.7 Sorry for the odd ratios, but that is exactly how I found it, so I feel i should leave it as original. It burns with a solid thrust, and a healthy flame envelope. I tried this comp but substituting the KP for 90 micron AP, and the color changed to a strong traffic light red. the thrust produced was greatly increased, as was the flame envelope. My idea for the color change was more Cl released from the AP, thus increasing the reds color. Another note to make is I left some KP pink in my M&P last night after dissolving the Saran in acetone, and it got pretty solid. Certainly not malleable anymore, but maybe a bit spongy. I imagine some experimentation with parlon would make a rock solid star comp. So I guess If I were to press this into rockets, I would allow it to dry out. Igniters might still work, but I would probably add some Mg to increase temp.
Twotails Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 Hmm,how do you think subbing barium carbonate for the strontium would work? Maby a green? maby Adding PVC, or some other chlorine doner would make it a viable green formula? I'll have to test this once my order comes in.
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted December 25, 2009 Author Posted December 25, 2009 I did try a direct substitution, and the green was minimal at best. There was a slight green, but it was almost completely white.
psyco_1322 Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 I like that idea of making it solid. I would be surprised if a few percent could turn it to a nice solid chunk. That might be promising some how. Yeah, good reds are possible from strontium carbonate, but barium carbonate doesn't yield the best greens. They are usually pale and washed out looking, but more safer and cheaper in some cases. They are still worth using and they look good, just don't put them up beside a barium nitrate green, you'll be sad. AP does have a lot of available chlorine to bring out colors. It makes some very nice colored stars, just a bit more pricey.
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 Well, I left the comp out by itself over a few days, and it became rock solid as is. It does not even need parlon or another binder. I guess the dried out oil leaves it solid. I really think it is coming close to a viable star comp. AP may be a bit pricey, but it is abundant in a high power rocketeer's arsenal. I prefer KP for my stars over AP personally, just because the quicker burn time. AP always seems to slow my stars down too much. Since I usually use parlon to bind my stars anyway, the generous chlorine given by AP is compensated by the Parlons Cl ions, with the exception of blue stars. AP blues are beautiful, and I will ALWAYS give a tad extra copper and chlorine donor than what the comp calls for. Concerning chlorine and blues, its better to have and not need, than need and not have.
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