List of Qs, Just to make sure..

[jukka]

I thought to start my aerial shell hobby with commercial materials first and learn more on the fine art of chemistry from books.

Before I start to build my first aerial shell, I would appreciate a lot if I could get couple verifications on "my idea" to proceed.

 

Here we go;

 

1) on 3" mortar, what would be optimal diameter after every step of the shell? There has to be room between mortar wall and shell but how much?

 

2) mini-stars are available for me quite affordable price. Hand grind those and by adding water/alcohol + dextring to generate by pumping larger stars, bad idea?

 

3) basic sparkler (not colored), can from that pyromass create with same method as Q2 is referring stars with reasonable safe ways?

 

these are the biggest safety issues on my mind atm. Would highly appreciate facts behind these thoughts.

 

Keep up the good fire!

[firetech]

If you're going to continue this hobby you're but better and safer off just buying KNO3 and Sulfur, making charcoal and dextrin, and moving on from there to make black power and charcoal streamers.

 

You want about 2-3mm around each side of the shell.

 

I've never taken apart and aerial shell, but the stars in those are likely big enough for use in a 3'' shell. You just need a fair amount of shells to get enough stars. You're also going to need to remove the bp to make enough lift powder. It's all going to end up costing you far more than you'd like to spend.

 

Start with the basics on a small scale (~1.5'') and work your way up.

[dagabu]

If you're going to continue this hobby you're but better and safer off just buying KNO3 and Sulfur, making charcoal and dextrin, and moving on from there to make black power and charcoal streamers.

 

You want about 2-3mm around each side of the shell.

 

I've never taken apart and aerial shell, but the stars in those are likely big enough for use in a 3'' shell. You just need a fair amount of shells to get enough stars. You're also going to need to remove the bp to make enough lift powder. It's all going to end up costing you far more than you'd like to spend.

 

Start with the basics on a small scale (~1.5'') and work your way up.

 

I am with tech, (BTW, you have a package on it's way, just sayin on this one, start small. I like 2" cans since they are super easy to make, spike and fill.

 

Mortar fit, 5% of opening is permissible, less can over pressure the shell.

 

Make stars, Tiger Tail are great learners.

 

Sparklers can be made easily with BP chems and Al packed loosely in a paper tube.

 

I would download TurboPyro and use it for the basic steps.

 

D

[Seymour]

2) mini-stars are available for me quite affordable price. Hand grind those and by adding water/alcohol + dextring to generate by pumping larger stars, bad idea?

 

That depends entirely on the star formula. Some like charcoal streamers are, but generally I'd say it's a bad idea. Safer would be to soak them in a solvent to turn them back in to a dough, but you do not know what binder they used! Also, the stars will be primed, and the prime will significantly lower the quality of the colours of flames and other effects!

 

I'm also going to say "just buy some chemicals". Besides, weighing and mixing is much easier than grinding down pre-made stars.

[firetech]

Seymour's got a good point. The stars will be very very hard. It's going to take you a while to break them all up if you decide to do so. I doubt you'll run into this, but if the stars are color changing you will get nothing but a washed out *something* rather than a single brilliant color, assuming the stars themselves are colored and not streamers. You also run into the safety issue. You cannot ball mill the stars to try to get them to a powder. Chances are they have some metal content and enough of it to ignite in a mill.

 

Bottom line is, no matter who you ask, if they have any idea what they are doing, they will probably tell you to head down the same road were telling you to go down. Sure, you can pull apart pre-made fireworks, but you lose out on the chemistry, technique and satisfaction you get out of a purely homemade fireworks.

[dagabu]

Sure, you can pull apart pre-made fireworks, but you lose out on the chemistry, technique and satisfaction you get out of a purely homemade fireworks.

 

Preach it brother!!

[jukka]

Bottom line is, no matter who you ask, if they have any idea what they are doing, they will probably tell you to head down the same road were telling you to go down. Sure, you can pull apart pre-made fireworks, but you lose out on the chemistry, technique and satisfaction you get out of a purely homemade fireworks.

 

Superb! This is exactly the reason I wanted to bother all of U Of course the satisfaction on a firework that has been build from the scratch by own hands is the goal for me too but I some how rationalized that Ill better start with building the fireworks with commercial FW modifications and study more chemistry. But.. Tiger tails and own BP then. Have 2kg of really fine sulfur powder, KNO3 is the easiest to get but awesome willow C.. Well hopefully some web-shops can send it to Finland..

 

I would have the formula on the mini-stars but I cant rely on it. Those come in pack of 3 different colors (red, green and silver) and the label says same formula on every box. Hardly the color of the box will determine the color of the stars.

It was:

NaC2O4

KClO4

Mangalium

KC7H5O2

 

Answers to the orginals Qs:

1) around 5% then it is

2&3) Ill forget that idea and start mixing basics.

 

Thank You all!

[scarbelly]

I'm not sure I'm understanding exactly what you're saying, but to make good black powder, you don't need to buy charcoal, and your charcoal does not need to be willow. Certainly if you want to buy, go ahead, but if you have trouble with that, making your own charcoal is not too difficult.

 

On the rest of what you're saying, I'm going to agree with everybody else. Making everything is really like 80% of the fun, and if you work with commercial components, you're just missing out on all that.

 

Question: you can buy boxes of stars where you live?

[jukka]

I'm not sure I'm understanding exactly what you're saying, but to make good black powder, you don't need to buy charcoal, and your charcoal does not need to be willow. Certainly if you want to buy, go ahead, but if you have trouble with that, making your own charcoal is not too difficult.

 

On the rest of what you're saying, I'm going to agree with everybody else. Making everything is really like 80% of the fun, and if you work with commercial components, you're just missing out on all that.

 

Question: you can buy boxes of stars where you live?

 

 

Well, I was trying to say:

The mini-star composition (values from the label) stands for:

NaC2O4, 18%

KClO4, 52%

Mangalium, 22%

KC7H5O2, 8%

 

The same formula is on all of those 3 boxes but the star colors are different. Red, Green and Silver. Thats odd.

I live in Finland, in the land on many restrictions so therefore I would not like to comment any more on the source of my stars.

 

I already ordered airfloat willow. Plan is to create 2" shells with homemade tigertails (as stars) and use the mini-stars on the another shells.

 

Have couple questions on the mortars but Ill create a new newbie topic for that.

Thank You!

[Arthur]

When a device (shell etc) is assembled the compositions are chosen for function and compatibility. I'd never suggest that you mix anything unless yopu are sure it will be compatible and safe.

 

For example, chlorate stars can look good but must not be used with BP as chlorate and sulphur is an unstable (and in the UK Illegal) mixture, it's seriously unsafe.

 

 

Read a LOT of well regarded books before you start.

[Swede]

When a device (shell etc) is assembled the compositions are chosen for function and compatibility. I'd never suggest that you mix anything unless yopu are sure it will be compatible and safe.

 

For example, chlorate stars can look good but must not be used with BP as chlorate and sulphur is an unstable (and in the UK Illegal) mixture, it's seriously unsafe.

 

 

Read a LOT of well regarded books before you start.

 

Excellent advise. Read, read, read, and that doesn't mean the internet in general. APC (here) and Passfire are two good sources, and the Pyroguide wiki is not bad and definitely getting better as far as formulas and safety.

 

As a noob, stick with the published basics. Black powder, charcoal streamers. For color, start with the organic colors, and the carbonates are safer (if less colorful) than the nitrates. Metals add a whole new twist to compatibilities and safety. As you progress, you will learn and absorb knowledge.

 

Pyro Safety is double-edged. You have toxicity issues (rare, but to be respected) and explosion/fire issues, and both must be taken into account. Above all, avoid any "kewl" type recipe which may very well be a "Death Comp." Enjoy! And yes, DIY is the way to go. You can spend years exploring streamers using nothing more than KNO3, Charcoal, sulfur, and two or three other chemicals.