Techniques for dragons eggs

[Mr.Dan]

What techniques for making dragons eggs do you use? Like the comps used and how to form them.

[Mumbles]

Well, there are really only 3 ways to make dragon eggs. Granulate through a screen, cut, or pump. The pump is fairly pricy. Cutting requires special tools unless you are really patient. Granulating is probably the easiest way to get started off.

 

The comps are everywhere. Look them up. All dragon eggs are usually bound with NC lacquer.

[Givat]

I think the best technic is to buy them if you can. Pb3O4 and other oxidizers used for this comps are very carcinogens.

 

If you decide to try it anyway, use as much protective equipment as your can.

[asilentbob]

I have wanted to try crackling microstars for a long time, but i keep going back and forth on if i want to use lead tetroxide, bismuth trioxide, or bismuth subcarbonate. There was some discussion on using a different chemical on UK Rocketry and Pyrotechnic forums, i think i was photographic hypo, but IIRC the people who tested it out had less than great success.

 

Preparation of crackling microstars oxidizers I started this thread a while back when i was researching them alot, could be helpful.

 

Personally i think im going to order the lead tetroxide or bismuth trioxide from firefox-fx.

[aquaman]

Why not try this comp (I copied it from sklighter). It uses less toxic chemicals (unlike Pb3O4) and is cheaper.

 

90% Bismuth Subcarbonate

10% Magnalium (200 mesh)

10% black copper oxide.

 

There are alot of dragon egg comps. out there.

[Frozentech]

I'd like to add another method of producing the actual eggs, that works well for me with the Bismuth Trioxide comp. I use a garlic press, bind the comp with NC lacquer to a soft putty-like consistency, put a pinch in the press and squeeze. As it comes out the little 1mm holes, slice it off with a sharp blade onto a sheet of kraft paper. Use acetone to thin the comp as needed, and to clean the residue out of the press.

[bubbelpower]

Why not try this comp (I copied it from sklighter). It uses less toxic chemicals (unlike Pb3O4) and is cheaper.

 

90% Bismuth Subcarbonate

10% Magnalium (200 mesh)

10% black copper oxide.

 

There are alot of dragon egg comps. out there.

I find it funny that you got a recepie with 110% ingredients there

[aquaman]

I find it funny that you got a recepie with 110% ingredients there

That is why I gave skylighter 110% of the credit . It must be a mis-print on the newsletter. The bismuth subcarbonate is probably 80% and not the 90% written but I could be wrong.

[justanotherpyro]

Why do people think that a formula has to come out to 100% ? If there is a forumula that is 19%a 7%b and 14%c and it works, then scale it up if you want to, instead of doing the math to triple decimals to get it to a 100% formula. 100% is easier to work with, and is a good standard, but it is in no way important that a formula come out to 100%.

 

Its not a big deal, I just think its funny that some people think a formula is messed up because it doesn't come to 100%. I'm not necessarily saying that the skylighter formula isn't a misprint, as I have no experience with making dragons eggs.

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

Well technically it cant be X% if it isn't 100...it would more of just be parts instead of percent.

[PangleMince]

All it is is a very fast burning thermite. The same effect would probably be achieved with WO3 from spent light bulbs. And if youve read uncle tungsten theres a good description of WO3 thermite. Lots of sparks fast burning... Seems right to me.

 

And yes, a mixture not adding up to 100% would be expressed as parts. Same thing really but its a linguistic formality.

[Douchermann]

I'd like to add another method of producing the actual eggs, that works well for me with the Bismuth Trioxide comp. I use a garlic press, bind the comp with NC lacquer to a soft putty-like consistency, put a pinch in the press and squeeze. As it comes out the little 1mm holes, slice it off with a sharp blade onto a sheet of kraft paper. Use acetone to thin the comp as needed, and to clean the residue out of the press.

I like this idea, however its similar to granulating. You should make sure you don't use this press for actual garlic, even if you did clean it out. Also, lead tetroxide is not a carcinogen, its just poisonous. One of the organs it goes after is your reproductive organs. It lamens terms, you can go sterile from being poisoned with this stuff. Now I'm sure the great lot of you would like to have children when you grow up so just be careful with this stuff. Though it is poisonous, I'm sure its fairly hard to get poisoned with it, since its an oxide and usually oxides are insoluble.

[hst45]

I've had a bitch of a time making dragon eggs using lead tetraoxide/MgAl/Cu(II) plus parlon, bound with MEK. I've mixed it in a baggie, and if i add ONE drop too much MEK it turns the mix too liquid, and if i let it dry out for ONE minute too long it goes instantly crumbly. I haven't tried the bismuth subcarbonate formula yet, but if it forms up better please let me know, i'd love to try it.

 

I've recently switched to using crackling flying fish (from Skylighter). Cut into really short lengths for a small shell it gives a nice effect. It's a cop-out, I know, but it still looks great. It's pricey, but it works.

 

Anyone remember a fountain made years ago by Black Cat called "Hells A Poppin?" I've duplicated the effect using a 1/2" unchoked tube, packed with a 50/50 mix of a slow burning BP meal and crackling flying fish cut in lengths of about 1/8" to 1/4". It's not a pyros dream, but it keeps the family happy!

[Frozentech]

I've had a bitch of a time making dragon eggs using lead tetraoxide/MgAl/Cu(II) plus parlon, bound with MEK. I've mixed it in a baggie, and if i add ONE drop too much MEK it turns the mix too liquid, and if i let it dry out for ONE minute too long it goes instantly crumbly. I haven't tried the bismuth subcarbonate formula yet, but if it forms up better please let me know, i'd love to try it.

 

I've recently switched to using crackling flying fish (from Skylighter). Cut into really short lengths for a small shell it gives a nice effect. It's a cop-out, I know, but it still looks great. It's pricey, but it works.

 

Anyone remember a fountain made years ago by Black Cat called "Hells A Poppin?" I've duplicated the effect using a 1/2" unchoked tube, packed with a 50/50 mix of a slow burning BP meal and crackling flying fish cut in lengths of about 1/8" to 1/4". It's not a pyros dream, but it keeps the family happy!

Well, the Bismuth Trioxide based comps have a similar weird behavior with regard to viscosity of the comp. Once you get just the right texture, you have to add a drop of acetone periodically to keep it workable. It also tends to shift between semisolid and liquid based on how hard it is pressed on, or stirred.

 

I wish I knew exactly how the Chinese made the Dragon Eggs they use in the cheap 'crackle balls'. They are perfectly round, pretty consistently 2 mm diameter, primed. They take fire easily, in fact, the crackle balls consist of about 50 eggs in a twist of tissue paper, with a knot in the end of the visco to keep it in place. Just the fuse spit and burning tissue alone sets them all off.

 

On that note, they sell 32 packs of the crackle balls for a couple $, I plan to grab a few more packs, and salvage the eggs out of them. I am told that the 'crackling whips' contain more eggs, but I don't know how best to get them all out.

[GlowinPontiac]

hellsapoppins are still around if you mean the balls that pop open and spew cracking and colored stars everywhere.

 

i have some by phantom fireworks called crackling balls. they are great donors of cracklers for hommemade fountains and such.

[radiorecker]

"On that note, they sell 32 packs of the crackle balls for a couple $, I plan to grab a few more packs, and salvage the eggs out of them. I am told that the 'crackling whips' contain more eggs, but I don't know how best to get them all out."

 

they are actuly quite easy to get out of the whips i got this year, all they were, were some sticky paper tape stuck to the microstars and all i had to do was just rub them off with my finger not hard at all

 

i also did some compairisons between the whips and the balls, i got about 5 grams from the balls and 30 from the whips not too bad to get 25 grams more for only $.50, i belive they were about 8 inchs and they also had some that i belive they are 12"

 

i get 12 for 1.50 of the 8s and 12 for 2.00 of the 12s for the whips, is this a good price?

[ewest]

Has anyone ever tried the method on Passfire for Dragon Eggs? He bought a hand pasta cutter with a bunch of little cutting wheels on it and basically rolled the comp out flat and ran the pasta cutter in one direction then turned it perpendicular and cut again. It made all these nice 1/8" square dragon eggs.

 

Well, I don't know how long ago he wrote that but I can't find the pasta cutters he used. I've been to a few stores and even looked on the internet; all I can find are ones that have a curly blade on it and not a straight blade. So I was thinking of maybe just using a pizza cutter and free-handing it.

 

I've tried granulating it, but I really don't like that way it turns out. I'd like to see if I can make them a little more consistent.

 

Frozentech I like your idea with the garlic press but I had this press once I bought at a kitchen store for dicing onions and I tried that. It made an absolute mess and then I couldn't get all the dried bits out of it. I ended up getting mad and tossed the whole thing in my burn bucket. That was the most satisfying part of the whole experience, the plastic dicer popped and crackled and spit sparks all over the back yard for about 15 minutes, it was great!

[Frozentech]

Has anyone ever tried the method on Passfire for Dragon Eggs?  He bought a hand pasta cutter with a bunch of little cutting wheels on it and basically rolled the comp out flat and ran the pasta cutter in one direction then turned it perpendicular and cut again.  It made all these nice 1/8" square dragon eggs.

 

Well, I don't know how long ago he wrote that but I can't find the pasta cutters he used.  I've been to a few stores and even looked on the internet; all I can find are ones that have a curly blade on it and not a straight blade.  So I was thinking of maybe just using a pizza cutter and free-handing it.

 

I've tried granulating it, but I really don't like that way it turns out.  I'd like to see if I can make them a little more consistent. 

 

Frozentech I like your idea with the garlic press but I had this press once I bought at a kitchen store for dicing onions and I tried that.  It made an absolute mess and then I couldn't get all the dried bits out of it.  I ended up getting mad and tossed the whole thing in my burn bucket.  That was the most satisfying part of the whole experience, the plastic dicer popped and crackled and spit sparks all over the back yard for about 15 minutes, it was great!

 

It took me a while to find those rolling cutters also. Do a google search on "rolling mincer" and you'll be amazed how common and inexpensive they are. I got my "OxO" brand rolling cutters from an online kitchen-goods store.

 

http://www.apcforum.net/files/dragon_egg_cutter.jpg

 

That said, I found that it's still a messy way to make dragon's eggs. I stick by my garlic press method until I find a better way. I will take pics of the garlic press I use when I get back home, it has a removable steel 'bucket' with the holes in it, and is made of steel except for some rubber padding on the handles.

[itwasntme]

Has anybody tried using pop its for draggons eggs? I thought that the force of the break would set them off. Anyone got a comment on this?

[ewest]

Wow that looks almost like the one on passfire, nice job. And thanks I'll look for the rolling mincer tomorrow.

 

Tonight I tried a cheese grater and then a pizza cutter. The cheese grater works the same as when I granulate it using a 20mesh screen, I was hoping they would come out a little bigger. And the pizza cutter looked like it works ok but it's hard to get the composition cut before it dries out.

 

Once I get it the consistency I want (like play dough) it dries and starts to crack within a minute or two, you have to work fast. And I'm only mixing 100grams at a time.

 

I think I'll give the garlic press a try, they're fairly cheap. Also, since you mentioned that, I was thinking a potato ricer might work too. If you've never seen one it looks like a big garlic press, but big enough to put a potato in.

 

LOL, it's weird you know, pyrotechnics is part chemistry, part physics, with a little metal working and wood working, as well as arts & crafts. And now I'm throwing my cooking skills in!

[FrankRizzo]

Mix a bit of naptha, lacquer thinner, or methylated spirits into your NC laquer to prevent it from drying and cracking so quickly.

[Frozentech]

Wow that looks almost like the one on passfire, nice job. And thanks I'll look for the rolling mincer tomorrow.

 

Tonight I tried a cheese grater and then a pizza cutter. The cheese grater works the same as when I granulate it using a 20mesh screen, I was hoping they would come out a little bigger. And the pizza cutter looked like it works ok but it's hard to get the composition cut before it dries out.

 

Once I get it the consistency I want (like play dough) it dries and starts to crack within a minute or two, you have to work fast. And I'm only mixing 100grams at a time.

 

I think I'll give the garlic press a try, they're fairly cheap. Also, since you mentioned that, I was thinking a potato ricer might work too. If you've never seen one it looks like a big garlic press, but big enough to put a potato in.

 

LOL, it's weird you know, pyrotechnics is part chemistry, part physics, with a little metal working and wood working, as well as arts & crafts. And now I'm throwing my cooking skills in!

I've been meaning to try a ricer for a while now. My main concern there, is dragon egg comps are *wierd* to say the least, with a funky thixotropic viscosity behaviour. That 'putty' can turn runny, and then rock hard in a flash depending on how it's stirred or pressed. You'll see. I am not sure I want to try and press more than a small wad of the comp at a time.

 

Let me know how the ricer works, OK, I may go buy one. I'd get a nice heavy duty one if possible.

 

In the garlic press, I just use a few grams at a time, press it through the holes (someone suggested drilling the holes out to 2mm ) and slice it off every 2 mm or so with a sharp knife as it extrudes, letting it fall a few inches onto a sheet of kraft paper. they dry quite fast, as you found.

[ewest]

Hey Frank thanks for the tip on using a different solvent, I found this right out of a Skylighter newsletter today:

 

For Slower Drying, Use MEK instead of Acetone

 

Thanks to Jeff Walters for this one. “Here is a helpful hint for the acetone "too fast evaporation" blues mentioned in the Dragon Egg recipe. Substitute MEK (methyl ethyl ketone). Dissolves anything acetone will, evaporates about 75% as fast, has a less nasty smell, and is available on the shelves of Home Depot. Right next to acetone. Both chemicals are closely related.” This can be particularly helpful when making not only dragon eggs, but when making black powder,

[pudidotdk]

Just wondered... can ping pong lacquer substitute commercial nitrocellulose lacquer in dragon eggs. As far as I know pingpong balls contains 25% camphor, plus the nitrocellulose is another compund..

[ewest]

Yep, it sure can. I take 25 ping pong balls and melt them in 1 quart of acetone and use it just like that. That's the exact solvent I used for my dragon eggs last time I was messing around with them.