dagabu Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 If it is brown coarse paper, it's kraft. It can be made white too but that is another subject. D
firetech Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 How do you get it so tight and even over the ends. Also what's your spiking method?
Mumbles Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Masking paper is around 20# or so for reference. I know a few people who love it for small insert shells. It comes in perfect widths for pasting them in. I like using an inner wrap of thin paper (35#) purely for fire proofing reasons, and paste in the majority of the shell with a more appropriate thickness. I have been making 5 and 6" canisters lately, so at that point using a thinner paper often results in needing to do it in two sessions, and excessive numbers of wraps.
dagabu Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Masking paper is around 20# or so for reference. I know a few people who love it for small insert shells. It comes in perfect widths for pasting them in. I like using an inner wrap of thin paper (35#) purely for fire proofing reasons, and paste in the majority of the shell with a more appropriate thickness. I have been making 5 and 6" canisters lately, so at that point using a thinner paper often results in needing to do it in two sessions, and excessive numbers of wraps. What would be the two best weights for kraft if you had to choose? I found a kick ass seller for virgin kraft but want to get two rolls first and see if it is in fact virgin. D
Mumbles Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I have 70# and 35#, and am very happy with it (30lb would be fine too if they have it). I haven't come across any application where I can't use one of the two. There are a few applications where something like 50# would be ideal, but there isn't anything I can't do with the two I have. 50# is like the clam shell support of paper. It's handy, but you can get by with out it. You might want to talk to Tom Niesson or TheSidewinder about this. I know they've both gotten good virgin kraft in your area.
firetech Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 I notice you guys are throwing the word 'virgin' around a lot. Does this mean it's not recycled? I'm not sure I'm using kraft but it seems like real pyro paper.
Mumbles Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Yes, virgin, as in it's other connotations, means unused or fresh from tree pulp. First run kraft is probably the most descriptive term. It has longer fibers, which increase it's bulk strength, as well as strength while wet. The more a paper is recycled, the shorter and weaker the fibers get. I've heard they also begin to lose grain definition as the fibers get shorter and shorter.
firetech Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Is pretty much all coarse brown paper kraft?
Mumbles Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Yes, but not all brown paper is virgin kraft. You can tell the difference from just looking at it. Virgin kraft smoother, and more uniformly colored. Paper grocery bags are usually recycled, around 60#. If you look at it, you will see a rather scattered grain direction. You will also see many light and dark flecks. It still has a grain though. To detect grain:1. Cut a square out, and mark the orientation from the original roll/bag. Spray it with water. It will curl up parallel to the grain. It's like the right hand rule for vectors. Curl your fingers the same way the paper is curling, and your thumb will point in the direction of the grain. 2. Tear the paper in both directions. Across the grain will be jagged and messy. Down the grain will be much cleaner. I used to use recycled kraft all the time, sometimes called bogus kraft. Paper grocery bags for heavy applications(70#), and paper lunch sacks (masking paper would work fine), for light applications(30#). It works, but I've had an increase in quality after switching to virgin.
50AE Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) I use #35 virgin kraft and #60 recycled. I prefer the #60 for rolling tubes and pasting 3" shells, because the job is faster. However, I use the #35 virgin for paper plugs, starmines, small shells, and other small things. I can tell the difference between the virgin kraft and the recycled one, when the virgin kraft has the visible direction of the grain and its surface is very smooth. It is also very hard and it's tearing resistant. On the contrary, the recycled one has a rough surface, some small brown dots and it tears more easily. Edited December 18, 2009 by 50AE
Pretty green flame Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 How do you get it so tight and even over the ends. Also what's your spiking method? Paper is everything, what i use is some sort of semi recycled light kraft which absorbs the paste really well and becomes very soft. Because of this it folds down really well. I spike my shell in no particular fashion, I don't use offcenter spiking, I usually take a 90* turn around the spolette and keep repeating the process untill i have 16 verticals on a 3". First devide the circle into 4 quaters, then each quater gets devided into halves and then each eight gets devided into halves so you get 16 verticals. I may be a bit overdoing it actually
dagabu Posted December 18, 2009 Posted December 18, 2009 Paper is everything, what i use is some sort of semi recycled light kraft which absorbs the paste really well and becomes very soft. Because of this it folds down really well. I spike my shell in no particular fashion, I don't use offcenter spiking, I usually take a 90* turn around the spolette and keep repeating the process untill i have 16 verticals on a 3". First devide the circle into 4 quaters, then each quater gets devided into halves and then each eight gets devided into halves so you get 16 verticals. I may be a bit overdoing it actually Thanks for the spiking info! I use virgin for the first layer of my cans and recycled after that. I find the biggest problem with recycled kraft to be its inabilty to hold together after booking with paste. Booking is the same thing you do with wallpaper, you wet it with paste and fold it into threes, let it set for a while and use it while it is saturated. Virgin kraft holds together great but recycled will tear and sometimes disintegrate when trying to un-book it. Sidewinder- I will ask Tom but I think he said that he was no longer going to sell paper. 70# & 35#, sounds good to me! D
PyroMan16 Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 I'm just making a bunch of rockets and huge fountains. I'll probably make around ten monster rockets with huge headers for the finale. Prob like 20" long, BP core burning and just wire them together and shoot them all at once with some big fountains. My nephew will love that!!! Haven't even started though
Richtee Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 New Year 2010 is coming ! What are you going to make ?Hopefully make it thru another New Year's party. Hey- at my age, ya never know... ;{)
pyrogeorge Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 so far i made: around 20 comets3" x6 ball shells4" x1 ball shell6" x1 ball shell and i plan to make mines. Happy pyros
andyboy Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 I'm getting started, but I will probably buy some stuff as well:
Gunzway Posted December 25, 2009 Posted December 25, 2009 Looks great Andyboy! Nice inventory from the rest of you too. I ought to be panicking, I only had five days soon to get everything ready. Really just been stocking up on lift and burst etc. , haven't made any devices yet. Dad has volunteered to help me, maybe even get some slave labor from the siblings too . Got to at least get 24 2" done.
psyco_1322 Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 andyboy, That's a nice stash you have there. It does look a bit odd though, many different looking shells and stuff, like it a composition of different builders.
Pretty green flame Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) Ok, so this is it, 29 shells (24x 80mm and 5x 75mm). I got a bit generous with the flash in a couple of them, should be loud http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/AVP2/Shelli80mmin75mm.jpg Also some commercial stuff http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/AVP2/baterije2009.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/AVP2/malishelli.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/AVP2/Rakete.jpg This is it. Anyone else got some pics? Edit: Whoops, forgot the rockets Edited December 27, 2009 by Pretty green flame
firetech Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 Well you guys are gonna have a ton of fun! I have lots of stuff but it's all pretty small.
pyrogeorge Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8606/dsc02650t.jpg
psyco_1322 Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 Ok, so I lied, there will be things to shoot. Pictures of progress, most the cans are ready, the balls need to be leadered and lifted, then i'll take more pics. http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/S4024988.jpg http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/psyco_1322/S4024990.jpg
Arte valdo Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 This is mine: 30mm cakes:http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/Artevaldo/Pyro%20foto/DSC00420.jpg 1lb rockets with 3'' shells:http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/Artevaldo/Pyro%20foto/DSC00421.jpg 6'' shell end few 4'' shell:http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/Artevaldo/Pyro%20foto/DSC00424.jpg 2,5'' and 3'' shells: http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/Artevaldo/Pyro%20foto/DSC00413.jpg 3'' x 5 shells 4'' x 10 shells: http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn126/Artevaldo/Pyro%20foto/DSC00416.jpg
psyco_1322 Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 Impressive. I swear people make up more stuff to shoot on New Years than on the 4th.
andyboy Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) andyboy, That's a nice stash you have there. It does look a bit odd though, many different looking shells and stuff, like it a composition of different builders. Thanks, it looks kind of odd since I've been building some shells, moved on to mines, gone back to shells to try out another idea and so on. This is what I've been building the last couple of months so it wasn't made in a single go. With the kids and GF I have to do a little here and a little there ya know. Edit: You are right though, the round plastic ball-shell was made by rooster. Edited December 27, 2009 by andyboy
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