Silver Streamers

[firetech]

I'm having a terrible time trying to pump the silver streamer stars I have.

KP..........35

Al (very fine flake)......65

Dextrin.....+5

 

The dextrin isn't really absorbing the water, and the mixture is so fine it fluffs out everywhere over my star plate. It's just a big mess.

 

How do you guys pump your stars?

 

and

 

What formula do you guys use?

[Mumbles]

Wet it with thin wheat paste instead of water.

[firetech]

And that should make it pump-able? Will it ever be wet like a charcoal streamer comp would be or is this entirely different than that.

[Mumbles]

Yes, they will become pumpable. The wheat paste really coheres all the bright flake together. The stars are pretty fragile until dry. I've never gone that high with flitter stars, but I've pumped as high as 50% or so bright flake.

[firetech]

The aluminum I have is way too reactive. It's not dark, it's just exceptionally fine, too fine in my opinion but it's all I have to work with. Which makes it too fast. It might burn much differently pressed than it does in the open though.

[derekroolz]

The aluminum I have is way too reactive. It's not dark, it's just exceptionally fine, too fine in my opinion but it's all I have to work with. Which makes it too fast. It might burn much differently pressed than it does in the open though.

 

 

Yes it most likely will slow down a little bit, in my expirience, though I have just basically stuck to KNO3/c/s/d based formulas. Perc is really hard for me to get ahold of and same with alot of metals exept iron oxide, But no worries because I am fine with what I got.

[Ventsi]

I'm wondering what a good silver streamer would be? I'm looking for a good Ti silver like formula, a bright white silver.

 

I'm looking for a tried and true formula and not something you "just saw".

 

Here is what I have to work with on these:

 

KClO4

KNO3

Charcoal(Different grades & meshes)

Sulfur

Dextrin

Dark Titanium -325 flake/sponge {I'd prefer not to}

-325 mesh Aluminum (Bright flake)

-325 mesh Aluminum (Spherical)

40-80 mesh Brass?

Carbonates- Sr, Na,NH4

Fe2O3

[Karlos]

Composition which contain fine flake Aluminum and KP often hawe high speed burning , and stars create the small rocket effect or go go getters efect. Good for big comet, not for stars. I dont like this. I am using spherical Aluminum with oxidising surface.

[vladou]

Same question than Ventsi. I hesitate between Shimizu Silver Waves (50/50), Ofca Silver Flitter and Hardt Silver Stars #5. Someone already has tried one of those ? I don't want to use a nitrate based composition because of the aluminium flake reaction.

[firetech]

Its not the nitrate and Al that react, its the two combined with water. Once dry they should be fine. A little boric acid will suppress the reaction too. I still agree with you though.

[vladou]

Of course, but I don't have boric acid, and even dry, there is always some humidity in the aire.. I don't want to take any risks while playing with pyro, there are already enough !

[jrin0630]

I have found the Silver Streamer comp credited to Oglesby (listed on Passfire) to be easy to work with and good effects:

 

KNO3- 47

Ba(NO3)2- 10

Sulfer- 18

Airfloat Charcoal- 10

Al- atomized spherical- 400 Mesh- 10

Dextrin- 4

Boric Acid- 1

 

Wet it slightly with 75/25 water/alcohol mixture so that it appears almost dry to the eye, but when you grab some and squeeze, it makes a good clump. For me, this pumps very easily.

[firetech]

Boric acid should surely be available at a pharmacy.

[Mumbles]

Boric acid is commonly sold as a roach killer if you want an OTC source for it. It can also be easily prepared from borax and HCl, which is used for a wide variety of household uses, and should be available at most grocery stores, hardware stores, or anywhere clothes washing detergent is sold. HCl is sold very commonly at hardware stores in it's concentrated form for cleaning pavement and cement. It is sold in it's dilute form for cleaning coffee pots, hard water stains, and cleaning toliets.

 

I've only used Hardt #3, and it is beautiful. There are two very important things that are often over looked.

 

If you're going with the silver wave type where it is strictly perchlorate (or chlorate for that matter) and aluminum, the inclusion of 5-8 parts red gum or shellac will drastically extend the tail, and is really required for a nice long tail. Excluding it creates more of a "flitter core" common in japanese shells. It has a short bright tail.

 

Use gum arabic or thin wheat paste IN ADDITION to the dextrin to bind the compositions. Just water doesn't give enough adhesion between the large amount of flake Al to hold it together all that well before it's dry. This is even more true when adding any coarse flake Al. I always add 1% boric acid anyway, but gum arabic and wheat paste are probably naturally acidic enough to prevent any reactions between nitrate and Al.

[Ventsi]

Well my RG won't arrive anywhere in time for new years, so could I just use a shellac solution as you would buy in a hardware store?

 

And would adding this/replacing the dextrin in traditional silver streamers give the same effect? Such as the case of Hardt3 which I might try but replace the dark Al with dark Ti, and the flitter grade Al with spherical. I'll make dew test batches and check back. In the mean time any more info would be greatly appreciated.

[firetech]

Mumbles, how thin is the the wheat paste? Could you give a comparison to some other common household item? Ex. Ned compares it to yogurt, but that would be way too thick. Edited December 1, 2009 by firetech

[firetech]

Formula for Hardt #3?

[Ventsi]

Hardt Silver Star #3

Potassium perchlorate 32

4FA Black Powder 28

Aluminium (dark) 6

Aluminium (bright) 21

Aluminium (flitter) 5

Dextrin 8

Add 25% alcohol / 75% water

[Mumbles]

I usually mix wheat paste for pasting shells at 6:1 (6 parts water for every part powdered wall paper paste). For cutting or pressing, I go around 10:1. The 6:1 is around yogurt. I'd describe the 10:1 around the consistency of whipping cream or maybe cold motor oil.

 

As for binding with shellac, I've never tried it. It's worth a shot I suppose. I'd always heard to never use alcohol with these formulas, but I think that was in relation to an alcohol/water mix. It can precipitate the Gum Arabic and wheat paste and reduce it's binding power. I'd also think that you'd want as much surface tension as possible. It might work. Shellac soln is pretty tacky.

 

Edit:

 

I just saw Ventsi's post, and once again reminds me why I hate third party sources. Hardt definitely makes no reference to wetting with an alcohol mix, and I believe specifically recommends wheat paste. Water, especially with alcohol, is not enough to bind this formula (I've tried). Gum Arabic alone leaves the comets and stars very fragile and weak until they are dry. Wheat paste is much preferred, and will give much harder comets. I don't know why, but wheat paste really is leaps and bounds better than any other wetting agent in these kind of compositions.

 

The aluminums, as they are specified, yet not transcribed where Ventsi got it from are as follows:

 

Al 809 (American dark, -325) - 6

Al 808 (Bright flake, -325) - 21

Al 813 (Coarse flitters, -20) - 5

[firetech]

Could I use a 35/65 KP/Al with added RG or charcoal (some type of fuel) to slow it down and lengthen the tail?

[psyco_1322]

I have used this once, and liked it. Just haven't made any since. I experimented with adding different types of Al such as firefly, and some of the globbly free stuff skylighter gave out. Both gave addition desirable effects. One note I will make is that it does burn relatively fast. I used german dark and a 4 micron atomized <-- also free stuff from skylighter. 1/2" pumped stars in a 4" ball almost could have been larger.

 

Lancaster Electric Streamer

 

Potassium Nitrate - 45

Aluminum, flake, dark, American dark. -325 mesh - 30

Aluminum, atom, spherical, 120-325 mesh, 20 micron - 10

Sulfur - 10

Meal Powder - 5

Dextrin - 5

[vladou]

I think I will go with Ofca Silver Flitter, since it contains some red gum. However, I won't put any Ba(NO3)2 but I will use 25% of aluminium instead of 21. Binded with water wheat paste mixture.

[Ventsi]

So I have all the results in. Here are the compositions I tried:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080083.jpg

The H#3 stars were bound with water and thinned Wheat Paste as Mumbles suggested and that really worked wonders. The water alch. mixture I was using in addition had 2% Boric Acid pre-dissolved in it.

 

These were put into a 1.25" bag mines and loaded into my rack.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080094.jpg

 

I had a bit of a problem where they all got QM'd at once exept for the Hardt# 3 stars, whuch were very bright. Its like God wanted me to pick them or something.

 

I knew what went wrong and saw it coming, I was easily able to distinguish what comp was which though. The H3 stars I only caught a glimpse of , but they were BRIGHT! I will as a matter of fact be going with Hardt #3 with perhaps a few more minor modifications.

 

Edited December 10, 2009 by Ventsi

[psyco_1322]

Those H#3 stars seemed to burn out fast also, though they were a bit smaller.

 

So what are you meaning on your dark Ti? What mess size is it?

 

I have some 325 mesh Ti, its cool, too bad I don't have more.

Edited December 10, 2009 by psyco_1322

[Ventsi]

Thats the stuff, -325 Sponge Ti, yeah they burn quite fast, I'll see about adding a small % of Shellac and making them 5/8-3/4". These were slightly over 3/8"