Great Organic Blue

[TheEskimo]

I was browsing around for cheaper, better looking blues that don't involve hexamine, AP, etc. I was on Wichita Buggy WHip, looking through their comps sections, and found this blue. Creagan reccomended it highly, and from close up ground tests, it is great.

Great Organic Blue

Star

From: wichitabuggywhip.com--Dan Creagan...Edit:: Eric Hunkins

Edit:: Pyro Science Blue

KP--66.1

CuO--13.4

Parlon--10.7

Red gum--9.8

Edit:: Dextrin--5

Normal compatabilities for KP, use regular gloves, mask, etc.

Get all chems as fine as possible. Sieve the fuels, then mix in the KP. Bind with either water, alcohol, or acetone. Works best pumped, I suppose that it can be rolled or cut; it is a bit crumbly.

They give a good bit of blue, and are reasonably cheap. They burn with very little residue or sparks. They could do with a light prime; stargun tests are about 50/50 in ignition. Hard launches blow them blind. A BP prime will do just fine.

2 vids: One with ruby red stars, w/RG subbed for the dex. I did not have proper plugging for the tube....

The other is a ground test of the blue. I'll have a better vid up in a day or so.

Edited November 18, 2009 by TheEskimo

[Mumbles]

Pyro Science Blue. It can probably be credited to Eric Hunkins or Tim Fieder. The mix is also missing 4 parts dextrin.

[TheEskimo]

Aye, I looked at the wrong spot. It is indeed Eric Hunkins. Blegh...I did miss the dextrin...I was binding w/alcohol, and there is a good amount of RG, so I blanked out on that. And it is indeed called Pyro Science Blue. My bad.

[a_bab]

The "pyro science blue" is obviously a tuned up version of the "blue organic conkling KP#1" for the specific chems of the author rather than stoichiometrically tuned as it may sound to some.

 

A formula shouldn't be considered as "nailed down" as there is always room for experimentation. The different chems mesh size and quality would make someone to say "great color, deep saturation" and "washed out blue, too fast burning" another because while the first had a pure KP, the other used a lower purity and much finer KP. There is about 10-15 percent room for each component to experiment with. It may take time, but you'll get YOUR formula, optimized for your needs/posibilities.

 

Also, specifically for blues I suspect that the purity of the KP available in US may not be the best, thus the hysteria to get the best blue. Some of the old guys from PGI would even recrystalize their KP, no matter where bought from, if they want to use if for blue (unless it's reagent quality).

[firetech]

I might be overreacting, but I'm pretty pissed off right now. The blue I just tried as a dry powder, shimizu blue #70, burned tremedously fast with a white flame. I just got the copper oxide today, so far it has failed me. I pumped a few stars, hopefully they will burn differently. I hope I didn't mix up the ppw wrong or something. Any suggestions with blues? This is the first time I've ever worked with them.

[Mumbles]

Suggestion #1 - Don't burn unbound powders. They exhibit far different properties.

 

Suggestion #2 - Shimizu B70 should have copper carbonate not oxide.

[Gunzway]

The powder never burns as good, usually appears whiteish as you've mentioned. Also, the colour never looks as good close up compared to a fair distance

away.

[firetech]

Mumbles are you sure were talking about the same comp? I'm not sure how to quote another thread but you said this on page 1 of Organic Stars:

Many are impressed with Shimizu Blue #70.

 

Perc - 63.8

Parlon - 13.8

CuO - 12.9

Red Gum - 9.5

Dex - 4

 

That's got copper oxide in it.

[Bonny]

Mumbles are you sure were talking about the same comp? I'm not sure how to quote another thread but you said this on page 1 of Organic Stars:

Many are impressed with Shimizu Blue #70.

 

Perc - 63.8

Parlon - 13.8

CuO - 12.9

Red Gum - 9.5

Dex - 4

 

That's got copper oxide in it.

 

 

Apparently that is a mistake, and the original formula calls for copper carbonate. From what I've read on Passfire,(where the formula is also incorrect) the carbonate gives a better blue. I have a large batch using CuO and they seem OK. I'll be sure to save some to compare with a new batch in the future.

[Mumbles]

Yes, just one of those things that happen without checking your sources. I've heard CuO makes a decent blue, but CuCO3 makes a much better one.

[firetech]

Alright, so what's a good copper oxide blue?

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Alright, so what's a good copper oxide blue?

 

Hardt says that CuO works well with both potassium perchlorate and chlorate "but needs an especially good chlorine donor to produce a deep blue" (Pyrotechnics p.124). The carbonate is better suited to the perchlorate oxidizer.

 

Against this background I tried to stick to formulas with a good amount of chlorine donor and they indeed seemed to give a better hue. Here is a good chlorate formula from Hardt Table 15-10:

 

Hardt Blue Star No.4

 

Potassium chlorate 62

Cupric oxide 13

Red gum 9

Parlon 11

Dextrin 5

 

However, the question is if parlon is "an especially good chlorine donor".

Edited November 19, 2009 by AdmiralDonSnider

[Gunzway]

I'm personally a fan of Pihko Blue:

 

Pihko KP #2

 

Potassium perchlorate 63

Black copper oxide 13

Parlon 14

Red gum 10

[Miech]

So am I. It's 3rd in my top 10 of best blue stars.

[LSchenck]

So am I. It's 3rd in my top 10 of best blue stars.

 

I'll bite. What is #1? #2?

[firetech]

http://pyrobin.com/files/mov00232.mpg

 

Shimizu II does not work for me. As you can see it came out white...not blue.

[Karlos]

This video shows nothing. Shimizu´s CuO stars are little less blue than CuCO3, bat not white. Contain smaller percentage of palron, but this composition is optimalized too for burning rate. Why don´t you make a solid mine or shell with this composition?

[firetech]

This video shows nothing. Shimizu´s CuO stars are little less blue than CuCO3, bat not white. Contain smaller percentage of palron, but this composition is optimalized too for burning rate. Why don´t you make a solid mine or shell with this composition?

Because the stars a white, not blue. Putting them in a shell won't make them any bluer.

[vladou]

I made a 3" shell with Shimizu II. The stars are a bit too large but it doesn't matter.. I will put the video as soon as I will get my 3" mortar tube from Pyro-Stuff ahah.

 

When I lighted some Shimizu II in powder form, it did a very bright blue color but, when rolled, it also doesn't work for me.

[Ventsi]

Has ANYONE here tried the blue AP strobe/rocket fuel used as stars? I really wanna give it a shot but just want to be sure it works beforehand.

[swervedriver]

Ventsi, I don't know about that strobe blue, but I rolled up some of qwezxc12's AP blue and it looks really nice. It burns with no ash at all it seems-

 

"453.5 Nanometer Emission Spectra Blue"

 

Ammonium Perchlorate 62 

Copper(II) Oxide, black 13

Saran Resin 11

Hexamine 10

Dextrin 4

[Zmuro]

Yes, just one of those things that happen without checking your sources. I've heard CuO makes a decent blue, but CuCO3 makes a much better one.

Would you mind sharing a good blue formula which is using coper carbonate. I made a test of 3 different blue compositions

that are using CuO.

[PoorBoy]

Just to verify something... I read all posts in this topic, I know we verified in a couple of formulas that CuO was wrong and should have been copper carbonate. In the original post for the science blue, is that formula correct? Is it actually CuO or was it another one of the mistakes and is supposed to be corrected to Copper Carbonate.

[qwezxc12]

Ventsi, I don't know about that strobe blue, but I rolled up some of qwezxc12's AP blue and it looks really nice. It burns with no ash at all it seems-

 

"453.5 Nanometer Emission Spectra Blue"

 

Ammonium Perchlorate 62

Copper(II) Oxide, black 13

Saran Resin 11

Hexamine 10

Dextrin 4

 

 

I'm becoming a fan of Hexamine as a fuel in stars because:

1) They tend to have a large flame envelope.

2) Hexamine burns relatively cool so it great for blues and purples. When used for reds, yellows and greens, add a little MgAl to heat things up.

3) Can be found and is unrestricted here in the states, unlike many metal fuels

4) Is easy to get in high purity, unlike Red gum which can be full of crap.

5) I've rolled the above formula with water and pumped with both water and resorcinol resin with no problems.

 

I prime that formula with a KP based fence-post prime using Red Gum and alcohol in my roller.

 

I just shot a 6in shell with violet stars made with a variant of that formula. It looked really nice; I'll post the vid when I pull it from my camera.

[PoorBoy]

Something I have been wondering. I know with streamer stars or charcoal stars, you have that hangtime effect, where the color seems to hang in the sky behing the star. Is it possible or to do the same with a blue, where you have a blue star and a long blue tail? or any other color for that matter like green or yellow or red. The trick is i dont mean read charcoal tail i mean a red strontium tail, or a blue copper tail, or a green barium tail. I don't know if all the pictures i have seen are from the shutter open too long or if its a real effect. sorry for stealing the topic, i figured it's just a simple 1 post answer.